7116 charging system

[qtown7116H 0]

I have a 7116 hydro that's developed a no-start condition, that is, weak battery. I have noticed that the ammeter never really shows a charge, but if I flip the lights on during operation, it shows a definite discharge. If I don't cut for a week, I have to jump start the tractor to get going, but then it will restart if I have to shut it off during mowing. I always run the engine at 3/4 to full throttle, so it's not that it is running too slow. Motor is #326437,type 0649-01, code 87050814. Obviously it has the flywheel alternator. Is there an easy way to check what's going on, or should I assume it's the regulator?

[UCD 14]

Battery is not holding a charge. Buy a new battery.

[qtown7116H 0]

Just put one in last summer and it worked fine until now...no significant changes, it started consitently during the winter snowblowing season. I thought maybe something took a cr*p lately to cause this.

[UCD 14]

Remove the battery and take it to be tested. If battery is a quality battery it should be guaranteed.

[qtown7116H 0]

Sounds like you're convinced, and if I've learned anything from this site, it's that the members know their stuff. I'll be joining shortly. I think I can almost find $10 in the bottom of the washing machine! What a deal. Thanks

[HubbardRA 19]

I agree with Maynard. I had a similar problem with a garden tractor battery. I replaced that battery with a 51R and cured the problem. This summer the same problem re-appeared on two of my tractors. Both had the 51R batteries. Turns out that all I needed to do was put the charger on the batteries and fully charge them. The 51R battery is a fairly large battery, and mowing for 20 - 30 minutes will come nowhere near charging the battery up. Over the past couple of years the tractors had been run only short periods of time. Which meant that the charging times was not even enough to replace the power pulled out of them by the starter. I charged the battery on both tractors in the spring, and have not had any trouble so far.

[qtown7116H 0]

Sounds good. Maybe I should just cut the grass more often. It takes about an hour to do the whole yard. That should keep it charged, eh?

[ReedS 6]

The b/s w the flywheel alternator came in several different output amperage ratings. Some are a lot less than I'd like but the 7116 that I parted out had a 10-15 amp alt, you can Id the alternator on the Briggs site. I can't remember wether the diagnostics were availible there or in a Simplicity manual but I'd check to see if the alternaor is charging before replacing the battery. Voltage should be approx 13v and amp guge should show some movement esp when the headlights are on. You'll need an A/C voltage meter to check the alternator itself(before the regulator/ rectifier) as well as an ohm meter too. Good luck!8D

[BLT 725]

One of the first things to make sure you have is a good case ground for the rectifier/regulator. Also, an ammeter is a poor gauge to tell you what is going on with electrical system. A voltmeter tells you more. I have converted a 7116 and 917 to voltmeters. They tell you what the battery state is in voltage when you are running and prior to start up. I have also did away the 10 amp charge system on the 917 in favor of the 12 volt 3 amp for the battery and the 30 watt 12V AC for the headlights and have been real satisfied. When you have all hydraulics, you don't need anything more then a 3 amp system to maintain the charge.

[Roy 0]

"Also, an ammeter is a poor gauge to tell you what is going on with electrical system." I do not agree with the above. An ammeter tells you whether the battery is receiving a charge or being discharged regardless of the voltage. A voltmeter does show the system voltage and is a relative indicator of if the generator/alternator is working but since it is reading only voltage it does not show actual charge or discharge current. To truly know what is happening both and ammeter and a voltmeter are needed. If the battery and/or electrical system has a higher than normal resistance the voltage can read high with a working alternator/generator but not be putting any current into the battery. e.g. Not charging the battery. IMHO the manufacturers went to voltmeters instead of ammeters because they are cheaper to install (less wire and smaller wires required) and because alternators are self limiting in current output. In your case, since you are not seeing any positive current flow, I suspect your alternator or voltage regulator is not working. This leads to a weak, low voltage, sulfated battery that will not hold a charge. A jump start temporarily puts a surface charge on the battery so it works for a short period of time but does not fully charge the battery. Recommend you fully charge the battery, or obtain a known good battery, and then check the charging system for both current and voltage output. A working system with a good battery will show a positive charge (current flow). Think you will find low output from the charging system. Note that a good charging system with low voltage output will lead to a sulfated battery. Current leakage through the battery case to ground will also result in a weak battery. "make sure you have is a good case ground for the rectifier/regulator." Good advice. This holds true for all the wiring connections in the system. Also make sure the battery case and battery holder are clean to prevent current leakage from the battery to ground. I usually set my batteries on a piece of electrical insulating material to prevent leakage to ground. As mentioned in the posts above, even if the charging system is working fine, supplemental charging may be required without sufficient run time to keep the battery fully charged. My observation on the situation,

[UCD 14]

quote:

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Originally posted by qtown7116H
I have a 7116 hydro that's developed a no-start condition, that is, weak battery. I have noticed that the ammeter never really shows a charge, but if I flip the lights on during operation, it shows a definite discharge. If I don't cut for a week, I have to jump start the tractor to get going, but then it will restart if I have to shut it off during mowing. I always run the engine at 3/4 to full throttle, so it's not that it is running too slow. Motor is #326437,type 0649-01, code 87050814. Obviously it has the flywheel alternator. Is there an easy way to check what's going on, or should I assume it's the regulator?

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Having been in the garage business for over 25 years and hearing the above statement in bold and not having any other tests that statement told me that the battery is not holding a charge because of having to jump start it, but once it has been started it is charging the battery because it can be started again in a short period of time of being shut of. If it sets for a long amount of time it has to be jump started. Most people do not have the test equipment to load test a battery nor a charging system. In this case the battery is being charged enough to start the tractor after it has been jump started therefor the charging system is working to some extent. "Is there an easy way to check what's going on" That is why I suggested to remove the battery and take it to a parts store or garage preferably to the place where it was bought and have it load tested. All an ampmeter tells you is if the charging system is charging or discharging the battery. A volt meter tells you the condition of the battery by the total volts in the battery before you start the engine (should be over 12 volts) and the condition of the charging system by telling you how many volts are being put into the battery to charge it (13.5 volts is desired charge rate). Above 12.2 volts it is charging below it is discharged. above 13.5 and it is overcharging. Volt meters are also safer than Ammeters. If an ampmeter shorts out it Puts a dead short between Neg. - and Pos. + side of battery and will cause a fire. Ammeters have caused a lot of vehicle fires and the the biggest reason for being replaced with a voltmeter or idiot light. I know of several equipment fires caused by faulty ampmeters. If you have an ampmeter installed it is very important to have a fuse wired in the circuit between the Pos + side of the battery and the ampmeter.

[qtown7116H 0]

Maynard, Battery is already out and on it's way to get checked tonight. If it is bad, would there be a reason for it's failure that's related to the rest of the system? (Assuming it wasn't a faulty battery). Forgive all the questions, but I'm in unfamiliar territory when it comes to electrical systems...

[UCD 14]

Batteries can just go bad. There are many things that CAN make a battery go bad. Something as simple as a dirty battery top can discharge a battery over a period of time, especialy the small lawn and garden types. What type of battery is it? Is it a lawn and garden, motorcycle type battery or an automotive battery? In my experience those batteries last only a year, 2 at most. If the battery is not bad you could have a parasitic draw discharging the battery while setting over a period of time. To test for this disconnect the Neg. - cable from the battery and connect a test light between the Neg. cable end and the Neg. battery post. With every thing turned off the light should be off. if there is a power draw the bulb will glow, brightness depending on the power draw. To find the source of the power draw disconnect electrical circuits one at a time until light goes out.

[qtown7116H 0]

Lawn and garden type...bought it at TSC. What's your recommendation for a replacement, if needed?

[UCD 14]

Measure the battery compartment length width and height with Clarence for battery posts for the largest battery that will fit also check for orientation of neg & pos post front or back (a battery with post in center line of battery can be turned either way) then check at parts store for battery that will fit, Most CCA (Cold Cranking amps.) if needing to start it in below freezing weather

[HubbardRA 19]

I think the 7116 came with a 22NF same as the 7000 series. Most people replace them with a 51R because of the cost and availability. These are available at places like WalMart and since they are a replacement battery for a Volkswagen, they also carry the automotive type warranty. I think the last one I bought was something like two year free replacement with 7 year pro-rated warranty.

[qtown7116H 0]

Well, took the 51R out and had it tested..it was only putting out about 70 CCA. Bad cell or cells! It had a 5 yr prorated warranty, so I got a new one for under $15. Problem solved, I hope! Thanks for the help and suggestions. That $10 has already paid for itself!

[UCD 14]

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[Roy 0]

With the new battery the ammeter should show a positive charge with the engine running if the alternator and charging system are working properly. Hope you find that all is good.

[qtown7116H 0]

Like I said..this place is priceless. When I bought this 7116 off of my father in law, I wasn't sure what I was getting myself into. All the neighbors drive shiny green/yellow or yellow/white HomeDepot tractors (if you can call them tractors) and the wife likes them. Thank God I found this site. The neighbor comes over when I'm working on it, asking why the hood is always up. I ask him if he even knows how to get the hood up on his:D. Funny, he borrows tools a lot, to "tighten some screws" on his JD box store gem. I think it's rattling apart after only 2 mowing seasons! The father-in-law has a '65 Landlord that is still original. It's his workhorse around the yard. I love that old girl!