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powermax_paul

Small frame Backhoes

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powermax_paul
I've had my Powermax Backhoe plans available for some time now with little interest. I think this is due to the cost of the parts to build it. I justified the cost cuz I use it often in my business. How much interest would there be in a smaller backhoe to fit smaller frame tractors (8 to 16 hp)? Something that could be built for say $700 to $800 in parts? Probably with 8-9" bucket, swing would be manual leg powered and stabilizers made from hand operated trailer jacks. Perhaps Kris could help me out with a tractor to use for a prototype? Paul

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KSever
Nice idea Paul, The only tractors I have left over here are my 717 and a 4108. They've been sitting in my shop waiting for me to finish the bathroom renovation, don't even have the time to get the boat in the water yet. If you need either one of these little ones for a prototype let me know, I do also have a 53 Ford Jubilee that you could use as a protoype if you need it.

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plastikosmd
i think 7-800 is a bit conservative. parts can be seen under my projects link on my website at www.plastikosmd.com the guy i bought all this off of had bit over 3k into it just in product. so maybe can be done for 2k or so ( you wont need the engine and the pump..as i wont either..maybe a few other odds-ends) ..but for a strong backhoe..that will be close. steel alone was 1500, hydraulics (hose, 4 rams, fittings, controls) and will need 2 more rams for outrigger control..so 6 total) is also over 1k. i got lucky and got it all off of ebay for 1500 total..so look around...other options include adapting a skid steer backhoe etc.. scott

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plastikosmd
on edit..i just re-read your post..i guess you can save some cash if you cut out some of the hydraulic cost. but on a machine like the powermax..it would be nice to be able to lift a good load..like seen on the http://www.ubuilditplans.com/webpage4_page2.htm site, nothing i would trust to a manual operated swing and trailer jacks. scott

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powermax_paul
quote:
Originally posted by plastikosmd
on edit..i just re-read your post..i guess you can save some cash if you cut out some of the hydraulic cost. but on a machine like the powermax..it would be nice to be able to lift a good load..like seen on the http://www.ubuilditplans.com/webpage4_page2.htm site, nothing i would trust to a manual operated swing and trailer jacks. scott
My backhoe plans for the powermax do include hydraulic stabilizers and I was able to build the complete unit for under $2000. (I think all the steel, valves and cyl's came to around $1600 actually) My original question was regarding a backhoe for smaller frame tractors, hence the trailer jack stabilizers and leg operated swing. The powermax backhoe looks like this in operation. It has a lot of power and if caught on an immovable object, will lift the front of my tractor off the ground even with the front loader bucket filled with soil.
[img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/uploaded/powermax_paul/DCP_0002.JPG[/img]
I also just finished mounting a low speed high torque hydraulic motor to the end of the dipper to drive a standard post hole auger bit.

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plastikosmd
looks nice...yea..prob is bit cheaper than 2k..as it looks lighter..my rams are 3.5 inch and 4 inch, bucket is 1/4 plate x12" and 1/2 and 5/8 plate at all links, arm gussets etc..bit over 600lbs in steel alone. looks great keep up the good work scott

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powermax_paul
Yup lighter in some places. The Pivot and Frame are 1/2" plate with 1" plate top and bottom of pivot. Rams are all 2-1/2" running at 1700psi. Arms are 3-1/2 Square tubing 1/4 thick with 1/4 gussets each side. Bucket is 1/4" Plate. We weighed the tractor with and without the unit and all total the backhoe weighs 780#

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D-17_Dave
I'm not sure I'd trust a manual swing. Anything other than perfectly level could result in someone getting a leg or something pinched off from the weight of a loaded bucket getting away from them.

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plastikosmd
1700 psi..that is a good number to shoot for i guess..i havent ever hooked up a pressure gauge to the pump on the crawler..so i have no idea of output..but that is helpful. wow 780#, i may have under est. mine i guess...i just based it on how many trips i had to make back and forth to the truck and loading it! how did you get a weight..did you take it to a truck scale? i cant tell how deep you are digging..but i am a bit worried about mine "looking" stupid on the crawler..it has about a 12 foot reach and digs to 7.5 feet or so..i think this is gonna stick up pretty far on the back of the crawler.. cause even on a skid steer it looks huge..o well..better to go big i guess! scott

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powermax_paul
If yer putting it on a crawler, it can probably take a little more weight. A Magnatrack I assume? Mine only digs 5' deep (2'flat bottom). Probably about a 9'reach. That's enough for a frost wall which is what I intended. I calculated the weight of each piece as well as weighed it on a scale at the co-op. Came out just a little over my calcs. I wouldn't want any heavier for a Powermax because of the rear axles and drop housings. It's pretty close to the weight of the original Brantly Backhoe made for the powermax.

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plastikosmd
no bigger than a magnatrack...it is called a trackmaster made in the 1950's..have some pics on my site..tho i dont think you can get a good idea of the size..but i have a feeling..based on the size of yours..mine is gonna look a bit silly. from what i am told..a bit bigger is ok..not so much for the depth issue..but it lets you swing to the side and more, and you do less moving around. weight isnt a big concern..i would like to keep it under 1k lbs, so i think im ok. scott

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MartinPalsson
I saw that you have had you plans available for a while but is there a way I can find them? Just now in the process of deciding upon the winter activity and a backhoe would be good. I saw the pictures of the backhoe at the DIY section and thought it would fit my Wheel Horse (Here in Sweden sold as Volvo BM) Im also a little bit interrested in a smaller backhoe for fun (for my sons...). /Martin

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JohnFornaro
A small Bckhoe on a 3416? It would be nice to have something for light excavation and lanscaping around here. If I could get one complete for $1000, that would be OK. I agree with d-17 Dave: Hydraulic swing would be safer. Hydraulid stabilizers would be easier to work with. If you're trenching, you'll exhaust yourself getting off the tractor and resetting the stabilizers evdery few feet. So I guess the cost should be 2K. Which is not impossible.

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DMedal
I couldn't figure out HOW to get the plans either, but just sort of window shopping. Seems as the tractor weight goes down the utility of the hoe goes down too. This is as much a discussion of reasons to get a PowrMax as how to put a hoe on a "small frame tractor". By that term do you mean what is commonly referred to here as a "large frame tractor" here, that is Landlord or 7000 series type tractors?

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powermax_paul
I'll sell a set of plans for $50. You will need a front loader and pump or at least a front blade to counterbalance. Still need a pump. Cost for mine was under 2000.
quote:
Originally posted by RBE17
Paul, I didn't know you had something available like that. How much are the plans and how much is the estimate to build a backhoe for a Powermax? Thanks, Steve.

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powermax_paul
Anyone interested in a set of powermax backhoe plans can email me at pkjorlie@chorus.net. Just keep in mind that you really should have a loader also. #1 for the pump and #2 for counterbalance. Remember this thing weighs nearly 800 lbs. You don't wanna be digging w/o the stabilizers down or you'll break a rear axle shaft real easy. I've moved 6' x 8' x 6" concrete slabs with it.

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Kent
I'd be very reluctant to put a backhoe on a large-frame garden tractor without using a subframe. IMO, you'd have the same problems that loaders cause on the front -- flexing of the tractor where the front and rear frames bolt onto the bevel gear box. IMO, you'd likely break the tractor's back without a subframe... Remember that in certain positions, such as the bucket curled and pulling hard, the backhoe would be transferring its load to the front axle of the tractor. The rear axle would be the fulcrum of the lever. However, the stabilizer arms take some of that stress, as Paul points out. Yet, load is still transferred to the tractor's frame and on up to the front axle...

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DMedal
As Kent says, a sub-frame would be essential. You'd have a worse issue than the loader problem as (as Paul describes) the backhoe is going to lift the front end off the ground even with a full bucket on the FEL. The side stabilizers only help in that they take some of the stress off the rear axles. They won't help with front end lift at all. My poor aching BGB! Can't you just hear the bolts a snappin'? The tractor, even a Powrmax, becomes the smaller investment compared to the cost of FEL + backhoe. So in a way if I've got to convince the wife we need a FEL + backhoe for our Landlord, I might as well throw a Powrmax in there too and drive half across the country to get it. -Don

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