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skunkhome

PTO question

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skunkhome
Do I use the inboard or outboard sheave to run the mower on my 3414s. I have it on the inboard sheave but it does not seem to line up properly with the rearmost pulley on the PTO swing arm.


I know the after market belt is a bit too long but it is driving the mower just fine. Would the right belt pull the swing arm forward enough to align the sheaves better?

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builder386
From the pictures I see on simplicity tech pub, that pulley shouldn't be angled like that. The swinging tension pulley has an angle but the one right below the PTO is in-line. http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/6767PRINT/PDF_files/TP_100_1362_00_AT_S.pdf Page 4 sorry 5 Hope this helps.

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skunkhome
quote:
Originally posted by builder386
From the pictures I see on simplicity tech pub, that pulley shouldn't be angled like that. The swinging tension pulley has an angle but the one right below the PTO is in-line. http://www.simplicitytechpubs.com/6767PRINT/PDF_files/TP_100_1362_00_AT_S.pdf Page 4 sorry 5 Hope this helps.
- builder386, It is funny but my sheave looks like it is in line when viewed from that same angle as in the publication.

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skunkhome
quote:
Originally posted by haykarenhardy
If the pulley has spacers behind it try removing one or use washers to shim. Is the shaft the assembly moves on wore? Are the bearings good on the pulley? Stan
Stan, there is one washer... would not make much difference to remove it. The bearing are good... no wobble in pulleys and swing arm moves forward and back without any slop. I am wondering if the swing arm itself is bent. Can't imagine how it would get bent. Stan, you have a late 712? Doesn't it have the same PTO swing arm? Does it look different than the picture I took from overhead?

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UCD
The swing arm is bent where the V idler pulley is mounted. The V idler pulley should be square with clutch pulley. The flat idler pulley should be angled toward mower.


Someone most likely had a pulley problem and tried to rectify it by bending the V idler pully mount.

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2burning
As a side note, I think when you engage the cone clutch, the top pulley does move out a little and it may even line up better with the idler pulley below. (Maybe it is already engaged? If no then never mind)

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biggie_rat
I went through some of my large frames and found all "V" pulleys at the tensioner are angled as compared to the PTO pulleys. I will say your's is more pronounced than the rest due to possibly a large spacer between the pulley and tension bracket (can't see it). On the 700/7000 series the brackets are factory bent and on the 900/7100 there is an angle mounting bracket, welded to the frame. All of the "V" pulleys are factory angled to point to the left side of the main drive, deck pulley. The flat idler is factory angled to point to the right side of the main drive, deck pulley. No large frame tractor "V" pulleys on the tensioner are at the same 'straight ahead' angle as the PTO pulleys. SLIDE SHOW REMOVED TO PROMOTE CLUB HARMONY sm01








B.R.

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haykarenhardy
Here is my photo of a 712 with 7100 series hydro in it, different idler swing arm set up. You have mowed some with this belt. Can you see more wear on one side of belt, or do they look the same. If they look the same you may be all right. If not "Someone most likely had a pulley problem and tried to rectify it by bending the V idler pulley mount." Like Maynard said. Stan


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builder386
At any rate, I don't think the belt should have that very defined kink in it where it comes off the cone clutch. Something is amiss there somewhere. You're right about the pulley not being perfectly square to the cone clutch, but it shouldn't be so far misaligned that it bends the belt.

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skunkhome
Well, guys it would appear that the v pulley on none of the tractors lines up squarely with the clutch sheave. Biggie Rat took pictures of a pretty representative sample of big frames, and just as I would expect the 7000 series (7012) seems to have a greatly more pronounced angle between the two pulleys than does the 900 & 7100 series tractors and of course Stan's 712 with later model PTO. Thanks so much, for you efforts , going out and taking pictures of your rigs for my comparison. It is working fine now so I think I will let it go for now. Iffin it ain't broke don't fixit.

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UCD
Read this post. Belt alignment from the horses mouth, Simplicity Tractor Discussions Commonly Asked Questions V Belts Belt Diagnosis And TroubleShooting Guide http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22257

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skunkhome
quote:
Originally posted by UCD
Read this post. Belt alignment from the horses mouth. Tractor Discussions Commonly Asked Questions V Belts Belt Diagnosis And TroubleShooting Guide http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22257
UCD, Thanks, I had read simular info which lead me to ask the question . I just couldn't seem to see how the swing arm was bent. Isn't it strange that every v-sheave presented to me is "misaligned" on the post 3300 series large framed tractors?

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biggie_rat
Then tomorrow first thing, Simplicity (Briggs & Stratton) needs to be notified to start a recall stating that all of the "V" pulleys in the tensioner areas on all of the large frames are aimed wrong and should be pointing 'straight ahead', so the belt can wear faster, due to the pulley pointing forward instead of toward the main drive deck pulley and they made them all wrong. Also, everyone should get their torches out, heat the brackets and point them straight ahead, like they're suppose to be. B.R.

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skunkhome
quote:
Originally posted by biggie_rat
Then tomorrow first thing, Simplicity (Briggs & Stratton) needs to be notified to start a recall stating that all of the "V" pulleys in the tensioner areas on all of the large frames are aimed wrong and should be pointing 'straight ahead', so the belt can wear faster, due to the pulley pointing forward instead of toward the main drive deck pulley and they made them all wrong. Also, everyone should get their torches out, heat the brackets and point them straight ahead, like they're suppose to be. B.R.
You think I could do it with my Benz-O-Matic and a Map gas canister? Frankly, I liked the PTO on the B-1 and like. Never had a lick of trouble with those PTO's.

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UCD
The belt alignment top to bottom has to be parallel the pulley is angled slightly toward the deck. not offset from clutch pulley as in Phil's picture What I said was the bottom pulley had to be square and plum top to bottom in line with the clutch pulley. If Phil's bottom pulley was moved toward the frame so that the belt was straight top to bottom it would be correct. Read the post on belt alignment it is from simplicity. Biggie's fist picture, 7016 alignment is incorrect. second picture, 7116 is incorrect Third picture, 916 is close but still not right Forth picture, 7116 is almost perfect Fifth picture, Newer Sovereign is in alignment the way it should be. In Stans picture the belt is straight but the pulley is tipped in at the top putting stress on the out side of the belt. These tractors have been worked on for years and in many cases by people that didn't understand the fine points nor put them back together the way they took them apart.. No telling what has been done to them over the years.

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biggie_rat
Invisible belts are used only when alignment is necessary. I have a complete stock of invisible belts from 28" on up. But I keep them in a different building, away from the adjustable belts. Thanks, Greg B.R.

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biggie_rat
Showing the angles (bends) and differences of all tensioner bracket for the 700/7000 series and the angle of all stationary "V" pulley welded to the 900/7100 series from the factory. Thus the "V" pulley idler does not point the same angle of the PTO pulley and does angle off toward the main deck drive pulley. However, all of the series, "V" idler pulleys do appear to be at a 90 deg. vertical to the axle.






B.R.

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