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Kent

Help needed reviewing Electrical Systems material.

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schaefer72
I just scanned the info under "starter generators" and "3 pole regulators". Generally it looked good. The math was lost on me, but the troubleshooting info was good. The only other I can think of that might be added to make it all inclusive is if someone reading the articles, it's likely to be because they are having probs with their system and will likely need to know of parts sources. Perhaps this could be included. Something like a page listing of (at least vintage) parts, and next to them have "available at most auto parts stores", or "available at our sponsors", or "so and so is the last place in the world to get it", or "if you broke this buddy you better be on good terms with a miracle worker". I know I'm down to one more local place to check for terminals and the insulators for a Prestolite starter. Umm. I assume it's a starter-generator. It's identical case and all to the old B model Delco starter-generator. Now that I know what the internals are supposed to be, will have to have another look at it to be sure.

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Good_Ole_JR
SUPER JOB..!!! Al, you missed your calling. It's great when theory is included in any repair or troubleshooting guide. Kent, nice format. The links make for quick reading. I can't today, but I'll make the time this week to read every word and share my thoughts.

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FiremanRon
Very good technical articles, that should help boil electrical theory down so anyone can understand it. Many very intelligent mechanical minded people are afraid to tackle electrical projects because they don't understand the mystery of electron flow. There was a mistake in section 2. The omega symbol is like a horseshoe with the opening pointed down. You had it right in section 3, on the drawings. It should be pointed out that in some drawings, they don't have the little hump drawn if the wires cross but are not connected. And sometimes they don't use the dots to show that they are connected. Usually, if there are dots, you won't see humps, and if there are humps, you won't have dots.

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PGL
Looks well laid out and clear. I hope I never have to use all the details, but it is inevitable that something will stop working sometime, and since I cannot take my problems directly to someone like Al, at least his expertise is available so I should be able to muddle through. Any specifics for the Onan setup on the 620s etc would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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Roy
I say it again. Al, you should be a text book writer and/or instructor. You have an excellent way of describing how things work so it is understandable. I read the 3-pole regulator article and scanned the starter/generator article. Without digging into the details your description on how they work looks to be correct and easy to follow. Of particular interest was your note on "low starting torque" if standard generator brushes are used. I thing I may have done this on my B-1 as it seems to crank slower than it used to. You have done it again. Thank you! 8o) Roy

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Al
Hi, When I started this, I thought I woud start with a brief summary of the structure of matter and the electron theory. Then I would go to some basic DC theory and the relationships that exist between Voltage, current, resistance and power. The fill in sections will, if done as planned deal with some [1 page]of the basic math involved to illustrate what happens in real circuits. In every day life you won't very often calculate things like this, but it will enable you to comprehend what to expect, like looking at something and expecting to see it 50 feet away, and if it is 200 feet away knowing something is wrong. Next I will probably get into magnetic fields and collapse to provide the back ground for how solenoids and ignition coils work. Followed by the magnetic theory of how DC motors and Generators fundamentally function. After this I expect to explore practical troubleshooting techniques. Later how magnetos and battery ignitions work. After this we may look at fuel systems and some 4 cycle theory. MY QUESTION IS? Are any of you interested in my continuing with getting into the theory or should I just have touched on the practical issues. If any of you are interested in the theory I will continue as planned. If no one is interested I can address what you will read. If some are interested, I will continue as planned and those not interested can focus on the practical pages. Just let me know. For me, I have to understand whats happening to effectively work on it. Thanks Al

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PGL
Jack Lindstrom >>->happyjackl@yahoo.com<-<< Hi Al & Kent, Very text book looking but easier for me to understand. This is something that I would copy just to have in my files even though I know that I could get it here at anytime. I agree with the others statements also. I can't imagine all the work that "Al" has put into it. Kent you have also done an excellent job of laying it out. These techical articals I feel are a worth while addition to our library from the very largest ones to even the smallest ones as one never knows when they will be needed. Thanks to you both, >>->happyjack<-<<

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sammym
Hi Al, I really like the idea of the practical issues. Its hard for me to understand anymore some of the really tech. information and therey that goes along with it. But I am sure there will be others that will want both. I get the most out of someone just showing a diagram and explaining how to fix it and why it broke in the first place. I am not saying that I won't read pages on therey but its hard for me to follow anymore. I hope this helps at least in my case me trying to explain how I feel about your question. Thanks so much, >>->happyjack<-<<

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oddball
Al, 2 thumbs up!!! Personally as an engineer I say BRING ON THE THEORY TOO, I like it. But don't go through the work just for me. You are doing a great service for many of us. Thank you. And I want all the others on this web site to know how much direct e-mail help Al has provided to me and I'm sure many others. I can't say it better than >>happyjack<<, Thanks so much. Mike.

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FiremanRon
In my line of work (nuclear reactors), we have found that if you have a good base of theory, then you are better able to handle the problems that are not clearly spelled out in the manual. I have found the same to be true when working on my vehicles and my house. Recently, my refrigerator was acting up. Since I knew how a refrigeration cycle is supposed to work, I wasn't afraid to tear into it and find the problem, even though I had never worked on a refrigerator before. $25 for a part, and I'm back in business. If you have the time, I think theory articles will be a great addition to the site. Not everyone will use them, but they will surely help most of us at some time or another.

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Roy
Al, I like the theory too. As Ron said above, if you understand the theory it is frequently easier to fix the problem. Theory helps immensely when parts are not available and it is necessary to jury rig something to work. Roy

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Kent
Al Eden has graciously spent quite a bit of time writing a series of technical articles on the electrical systems for these old tractors. He's to the point that he's asking for input, before continuing with the series. There's several more articles planned, but we're asking for your review and input... Please post your comments and questions here! Thanks! BTW, Al just confirmed that the "Ford type" voltage regulator will NOT work on these starter/generator systems. I thought I remembered that correctly from his articles.... Enjoy, and let us know what you think![A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/service/electrics/electrical_systems.htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/service/electrics/electrical_systems.htm[/a]

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Kent
Ron, I changed the description of the Ohms symbol to what you said. I was the one who put the description in, not Al. I'm checking because I think the real Greek name of the symbol is a Mu, but I'm not sure.... I'm sure an Omega looks like an 8 turned sideways -- it's actually two interlocking rings.... Regardless, what was there was in error! Thanks for the catch! Kent ----------------------------------------------------------- Update: Strangely enough, we were both right. The lower case omega IS an 8 turned on its side. The capital omega is the horseshoe with open end down, and is the Ohms symbol. I even found the special font codes to display it in HTML. I changed the Electrics 2 page to now show the capital omega, the correct Ohms symbol.

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Guest
I would hasve to say this is one of the BEST explinations I have read ===VERY GOOD ==== Wendell

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Guest
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