Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
Mrgoodwrench22

is it wrong

Recommended Posts

Mrgoodwrench22
I've always been careful when I get a new to me machine to document the s/n, engine # and any other bits of info I can dig up on the machine ie what options are on it etc.. To the purest that I know this is the way of a true collector. I recently had a conversation with a massey collector who disagreed with some of my modified tractors as not being true to the spirit of a collection. I have a thing about s/n's, I have 2 big10's 1 homesteader8 1 b112 1 5010sim 1 637sim and 1 7013s that are s/n machines. This seemed to be ok with him but my homemade machines appeared to annoy him(none of my homemade machines have s/n's so to me that makes them fair game for modification) To explain this I have a big10 that I built to be a b110 a 7013s that be came a 712s and am in the process of converting a homesteader8 to a b208, of coarse as most of us know this is simple by finding the sheet metal and steering wheel that you need. Now in no way am I going to change the way I do things here where I am the BIG KAHUNA but it did make me wonder what the members here thought. Normally I am a man of few words and after many years of constant effort I like to think I've calmed down with age but after discovering new ways to insult my friend, his tractors and other thing involved with him I'm fairly certain this topic will not come up in the future. But still the question is there, is it wrong to modify these antique machines. My personal opinion is do what makes you happy and I do. Comments please thanks jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HubbardRA
They are your machines. Do with them as you wish. A modified Simplicity is still better than a Simplicity going into a crusher, or being melted down. None of my tractors are stock. There is always something that needs a little modifying. I might be more of a purist if each tractor were worth $10,000, but they are not. When a good price for one of these tractors is only about one tenth of the cost of a new tractor, then keeping them factory pure isn't worthwhile in my opinion. I use them because they are great tractors, and I can get them at very good prices. Having 5 tractors for less than the cost of one new tractor sure got me interested. I say, do what you got to, and don't worry about the purists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dark
The purist has a point a collection should be factory spec but if as you said have no s# then they are fair game I brought this question up before in forum and received the same answers you have They Are Your Tractors! If you take them to shows yep you will get docked points for Non OEM parts Paint and Trim but if you collect them and use them for work they are a working collection. if they are for show they should be OEM right down to the paint code colors. not all mods are for work lol.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ehertzfeld
quote:
a collection should be factory spec
I do not agree with that statement! A collection is anything some one keeps a bunch of. They could be original, or they could be modified or home made. One of the world's foremost car collectors, Jay Leno, and a few modified cars. Is he not a collector???? Bottom line, it's your Hobie, your collection, and your perception of a collection. Who are we to judge. Keep doing what your doing if that make you happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
B.Ikard
I try to stay as close to original design as I can but usually try to improve on the factorys shortcomings. A good example of this would be installng a 16hp Briggs in a B-210/212. Looks like it was made there with a lot more power, etc.. Larger tires and a better seat. I will not hack up sheetmetal or grossly alter the appearance by welding and cobbling up backyard fixes tho- I suppose I hve a working collection-when I hear "collector" I get a mental picture of a climate controlled room of Corvettes on carpet, etc. Brnet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tacey
I own three Simplicities, and use them as they were intended. They have an easy life with me (no tilling or dirt-plowing), just cutting grass, pushing snow, and dragging a trailer around. I like how easy they are to work on, and keep running. I wash 'em up, and keep them pretty. I marvel at the resourcefulness of some who post here. They will cut, weld, bolt, and otherwise "hack" a machine to suit their purposes. I applaud them; it's their iron, hack away. Maybe in thirty years, these machines might be collectable for their monetary value, but for now, my grass needs cut, so I collect my neighbors' envy for the best-looking lawn in the neighborhood. Tacey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom_Byrne
MY TWO CENTS: I'm an old school guy when it comes to tractors and cars. I like my tractors as original as possible, and just mild custom work on my cars. Having said that, someones personal property is just that- personal property, that you can do what you wish with. Everyones personal preference is different, very few of these tractors are original anyway after this many years- aftermarket ignitions, different engines, etc. I have yet to see a category at the Pebble Beach Concours D'Elegance for Garden Tractors, but it sounds like this guy you spoke to will be rallying hard for one! Enjoy your machines and do as you wish with them- they are YOUR collection and no one else's, regardless of what some snooty know-it-all says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chris727
I would say that is fine as long as you don't try to sell them to someone as a tractor they originally were not, I would be interested to see the Big Ten turned B-110, as the frames were different between the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dark
Elon, if you are entering a vehicle into a show be it tractor or auto makes no difference the judges have a points system so if you are putting a modified equipment in a show and want the prize the tractor ,car, whatever needs to be OEM spec. if it is a working collection then It really don't matter but if you want to SHOW the car , tractor, equipment its a whole new ball game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
goatfarmer
quote:
Elon, if you are entering a vehicle into a show be it tractor or auto makes no difference the judges have a points system so if you are putting a modified equipment in a show and want the prize the tractor ,car, whatever needs to be OEM spec. if it is a working collection then It really don't matter but if you want to SHOW the car , tractor, equipment its a whole new ball game.
If you're talking modified VS original WRT showing them, there usually is a points system involved. But they also have different catagories for "trailer queens"(restored 100%, never used)VS modified machines. I agree with Tom. I try to keep cars and tractors basically as built, but some mods are good, and some mods are probably needed, to keep some machines going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
toomanytractors
Two more cents worth!! Years ago I belonged to a local antique car club. Ihad a 29000 mile totally original '37 Ford Sedan that rode and drove like a new one. One guy kept after me to "restore" this car to the point it took all the fun out of it. I quit the club, sold the car and was never affiliated with a club until this one. I am now "repairing" my grandmothers '50 Ford Tudor to just the way it was when Gramdma quit driving--It's going to be a driver, a used car and to heck with critics and "experts" I have two aunts in their eighties and nineties and cousins in their seventies who drove this car fifty years ago. It is far from being done(are they ever done?) but when I had everyone here on Sept 23rd and rolled it out for them all to drive they were thrilled. Most hadn't seen this car in at least 35 years! Anyway, as far as modifications--do what you like--if it suits you go for it and don't worry about the purists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimJr
My turn! First and foremost, it is yours. I too jot down all relevant numbers for the stuff I want to keep track of. My problems are as follows. The words restored and original are often used too loosely in the tractor community. Restored should only mean rebuilt to be as it was new - the right color, numbers matching engine, right tires etc. Original should be obvious, but that word is too often used to describe things that have been repainted, new engine etc. It is no longer original if such things have happened to it. I do have more of an appreciation for original and correctly restored machines. But, there are so many mutts and salvage tractors out there that are very useful to us, so do what you may! I have some of all the above. An original 717 Broadmoor that is very clean and very correct. My everyday 717 Broadmoor mutt, older hood, welded front axle, wrong engine - but it works great and I don't feel bad about using it up. I have very slowly worked on a correct restoration of the 707 Broadmoor my dad bought used in about 1975. My only complaint, same with cars, is hacking up a good original car to modify it. Cut up a junker, not a piece of American history. If an antique has survived this long, either leave it be and maintain it, or restore, not hack it. Just my worthless opinion. Tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
firefoxz1
quote:
Originally posted by TimJr
My only complaint, same with cars, is hacking up a good original car to modify it. Cut up a junker, not a piece of American history. If an antique has survived this long, either leave it be and maintain it, or restore, not hack it. Just my worthless opinion. Tim
That about sums up my 2 cents on the subject also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dirtsaver
Two more pennies worth...... #1: It's yours,do what pleases you #2: If the tractor is documentably all original(including engine) it's nice to keep it that way and do a proper restore(down to new factory matching nuts,bolts and screws). I'm hoping to do that with my 3012V someday. Especially since I have all the implements(tiller,breaking plow,HD blade,rear and mid mount cultivators,wheel weights and front/rear counter weights) that came with the tractor from the dealer. #3: If it's a rough unit or "built from salvage" I enjoy seeing tractors modded to the owners taste and needs,short of completely butchering the unit. Several of the guys here have done extreme mods with torch and welder work that flat out look factory and that's just way cool! My two cents(maybe three)worth. Larry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mrgoodwrench22
I don't recall using the word "hack" I think I said change sheet metal in the attempt to create a machine that I can't find or can't afford. I do not hack anything ever, I take some pride in my copies because without the trained eye they can't be picked out from the others that I have in my shop. I don't sell my tractors, I work on lawn mowers and farm tractors on the side for a little extra scratch to pay for my habit. I have never owned a trailer queen have no use for one. Mine is a working crew but the look good and do what I want. Thanks for the thoughts, later jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
B-16_IC
Well, if all us answering this thread actually gave you two cents, you could buy another tractor!lol :o) Here's mine, I agree with everybody else's Lincolns. I personally like your idea of keeping complete documented (serial# intact) machines stock. Some have to be saved for the future, if it is nice, keep it that way. Never mind being a purist, nice original machines are easier to restore. There is less parts to chase down because they are all there, just need cleaning and paint. On the flipside, "pasture queens" as I call them are easier to modify than restore because parts are missing or damaged and are hard to find, such as original engines. I have an old B-12 tore down in the garage that is getting modified with non-original hood, grille, engine, and a few other things because the originals were missing. Modifying is just easier, cheaper, and more practical. If it had been complete, and garage kept it would have been a no-brainer, restore. I am not saying I would look down at anyone for modifying a nice one, it's there machine. The only mod I would look down on is the one Ray mentioned of the green and yellow paint.sm00 I have seen some great mods here, some I will probably copy on my machines because they improve performance and usabilty. I say carry on! And tell that friend of yours to turn on a fan the next time he paints one of his machines, just a friendly suggestion!:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Willy
I like to see a good looking referb,but I also am interested it mods. I have a B-10 and a Big-10 that I want to keep as original as possible,but i have a Big-10 that is going to see A new 16 twin Eng,and the 14 horse that in it will go in my b-1.I don't really call a modification a hack job if it is done so it looks presentable. Like they said in the 60's if it feels good do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
olcowhand
With my 2 cents, you oughta be getting close to a dollar now! Almost all my tractors have been altered in some, or in many ways. I change things to make them work better as "I" want them. I do keep paint to oe colors though. I also try to keep mods to where they appear factory, just to keep a clean look to them. I say do what you want!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mooseman3210
Wow Guys You all opened my eyes . I have very little knowledge of this but I'll put my 2 cents in (because i can ) I Started this because when we lived in Oklahoma i had a 2 acre yard that had to be mowed and i got tired of doing it with a push mower . So i had a neighbor friend that had a couple of lawn mowers that he had laying around the house that he wasn't using 1 happened to be an A-C. And it looked the best out of the two he had . And i was hooked .I mowed that lawn for 1 full year and all i had to do was check the oil and feed it every time i mowed. The point is I don't have a lot of money for this stuff (as most of us don't .) and to me if you have the true intentions of keeping this original and you do the best you can and get the best parts you can then i guess that is original enough. if you have to get a new carb from Kohler and it is the latest style is that not still original ? and why not because it isn't as old as the machine ?? why not if it is the same part # and it works so is that not original ? I think it is .. we all work hard on these but the problem is parts wear out and for some of us paying 197.00 for a new Old carb just isn't in the budget . We do the best we can and work hard at it . I give everyone here a lot of credit because you all are always improving and making this equipment work. I said this once and I'll say it many more times if the men were here today that built these things they would be proud of the ideas that you all come up with . I bet ya they had no idea that this stuff would still be running around today and doing what we put them through. Thanks Mooseman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • Greatwest
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. AC1945WC
      AC1945WC
      (39 years old)
    2. popcorn
      popcorn
      (49 years old)
  • Recent Status Updates

    • Paul M.Murphy

      Paul M.Murphy

      Hello glad I got on this site. I hope to upload a couple of photos of my Simplicity Broadmoor 
      Model 707 Tractor. I have replaced all the belts on it and installed a new ignition switch.
      Have a mower deck which was in poor shape , repaced a couple of bushings and welded the
      deck where there was some holes. The tractor and mower deck came from a friend and the 
      mower deck metal was getting pretty thin. Some new metal was put in it and we also undercoated the underside of the deck. This was done by my friend Greg Toulman.
      I have not put the mower deck on the tractor yet, waiting for Greg to come home and give me a hand. Can you please tell me if there is a manual for the mower deck and where I could get one.
      I would also like to get some moon wheel discs as well.
      I will try and down load some photos of the tractor when my wife shows me how to. 
      I really love driving this tractor and also how well it is made compare today's tractors, especially the flexible rear end and the rollers.
      Tell the next time 
      Paul
       
      · 8 replies
    • jbrooks

      jbrooks  »  Talntedmrgreen

      Josh
       
      folowing  this from a link at the downloads.  I just rescued an AC 920 with the lambodini diesel. I can' t download  yet .  Where did you find the PDF copy you posted. . I would like to figure out how to adjust the injection pump. 
      I assume it's a bosche, correct
      · 0 replies
  • Adverts

×