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725franky

Please Help 3415H Vickers Hydrostatic Problem

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725franky
Hi, I have a Simplicity Sovereign 3415. I just bought it about 1-2 months ago and haven't really used it much until a week or two ago when I "tried" to plow snow with it (about 12" + of very heavy wet snow). However, I started having problems, other than the snow. I realized that something was wrong when I couldn't back up.... I put it in reverse and it didn't go anywhere! [Here I should clarify that I had prior to this driven this tractor and it seemed to run just fine in forward and reverse.] The tires weren't spinning or anything. If I pushed it it seemed like it was assisting me somewhat; however, it didn't have the power to drive the tractor. It still will drive forward...just not nearly as fast as it should. In forward it goes at half speed or less. So first thing I did was get out my manual and see where the trans fluid "check plug" was located. I did find that it was very low on trans fluid so I filled it back up to where it should be. Still everything is the same. It wont drive in reverse and only drives very slowly in forward. I did not notice any unusual noises when it stopped working and I had been driving it for a while when it stopped. ______________________________________________________________________ That was my first post of my problem over on MyTractorForum http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=51577 These were my following posts as I began to work on this tractor. ______________________________________________________________________ Okay, I had a chance to work on the Simplicity a little bit over the weekend. And this is what happened: I jacked up the rear of the tractor and then blocked it up. I disconnected the forward / reverse linkage by removing parts 2 & 5. Doing that allowed me to move the forward / reverse lever (part 1) to full forward and full reverse positions. I found that by doing this, while having the tractor blocked up off the ground, I could get the tires to spin about 50 rpm which worked out to around 3.4mph. The problem is that it was going the same speed in forward as it was in reverse. So I believe that City Farmer was correct for the reverse part; however, I think there must still be a different problem as well. Since the tractor was running both forward and reverse while blocked up I decided to bring it down and see what would happen when I went to drive it. Well, I found that I could go about the same speed in forward as in reverse. But, it seemed that in reverse the tractor actually was a little bit stronger. I don't think I mentioned it yet but this tractor should be going about twice the speed it is in forward. And it seems to be lacking the power it should have both in forward and reverse. ______________________________________________________________________ I guess I should have been more descriptive when I said that it seems to be lacking power. For example I backed into some soft clay soil and the tractor was hardly able to pull out of it even with the engine at close to full throttle; and it wasn't due to a lack of traction either (in other words the tires weren't spinning). Before I experienced the problem this tractor would spin its tires if it came up against something with more resistance than it had traction. For example if I was plowing snow and it got too deep the tractor would stop moving but its tires would be spinning. The way it is right now it stops dead in its tracks ... no tire spin; however, the engine doesn't seem to bog down at all. As far as speed goes I would be okay with it only going 3.4mph if it could do it at full power. Another problem here is that it now goes the same speed forward and reverse where it used to go twice as fast in forward as it did in reverse (forward was about ~ 7.5mph). I hope that this provides a little bit more helpful information. Thanks for all of the help so far! I had no idea even where to start before. I'm really hoping that I will be able to repair this thing as I just purchased it a short while ago and don't want to be left with an expensive piece of junk. Any ideas? All help is greatly appreciated! - Frank Sorry for the long post and any confusion that may be derived from me cutting and pasting form another forum. Thank you for taking the time to read over my post. Any and all suggestions are very greatly appreciated!

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D-17_Dave
The speed differential could be a linkage problem. It's hard to tell for sure without seeing it may be that you did not return the linkage to the same spot when you hooked it back up. I would also say that you could have a filter stopped up, a cracked suction side hose leaking in air, or in the cold weather you may have some water contamination and it's partly frozen causing some restriction in the suction side of the system. The first thing on any hydro to check is to see if the belt is completely tight. Due to the age of these tractors and the lack of use the clutch pedal may see it's very likely that you or someone depressed the pedal and with a binding linkage it's holding the belt loose.

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goatfarmer
Does that hydro have a freewheeling valve? If it does, make sure it's fully engaged. I have a 7016H that had forward, but no reverse. The freewheel valve was hung up.

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MikeES
First guess is slipping belt. Second, Are you sure you do not have a broken axle or broken differenial? There could still be enough friction to move the tractor without much resistance.

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725franky
Last night I replaced the belt and made sure that the clutch pulley / assembly wasn't stuck or sticking. No problems there. I did notice though that there seems to be more "in between" space in the selection of forward and reverse. Before this problem came up I would have to have the forward / reverse lever in just the right spot to keep the tractor form moving; where as now it seems like there is quite a decent gap (in between the forward and reverse).
quote:
The speed differential could be a linkage problem. It's hard to tell for sure without seeing it may be that you did not return the linkage to the same spot when you hooked it back up.
As far as speed goes, I don't have the selector lever fully assembled so I can move it through the hydro's complete range. So I guess that that could be the reason for the equal speed issue. As far as water goes I have tried it when its been above freezing. The results were no different. I may try changing my filter next. How do I drain the trans fluid? I didn't see a drain plug anywhere.
quote:
First guess is slipping belt. Second, Are you sure you do not have a broken axle or broken differenial? There could still be enough friction to move the tractor without much resistance.
No I guess I am not sure that I don't have a broken axle or differential. Other than looking (looks just fine) how could I tell? Thanks for the suggestions. -Frank

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D-17_Dave
Your descriptions are getting much better and more defined as you step through it. The filter assembly can be replaced but you can clean it too I think. As for draining it you can remove one of the suction hoses and let it drain. As I said before with the possibility of suction side air leak now would be a good time to replace this hose. I'd try it all with fresh oil and a clean filter before going deeper. If this doesn't prove to fix the issue then you should expect in internal problem. You may have a problem building high pressure but you said it happened all at once. This to me would indicate a charge pump problem or an internal linkage problem. You would need a couple of gauges and some experience to properly diagnose a pump issue. There is the possibility that the linkage on the inside of the pintle has come loose and will not put proper pressure against the swash plate. The swash plate moves the high pressure head section of the hydro-stat to create the high pressure needed to turn the motor and move the tractor. As you apply pressure the system reacts by the applied load going to the wheels. The more the load against the wheels the more the load against the swash plate and then the linkage. The linkage can move the internal controls but slip under load causing you to "think" your moving the internal controls when in reality it's not moving. This would be a rare thing and worst case scenario but I have seen such conditions before on other larger hydrstatic propulsion systems. This could also be difficult to determine lest you disassembled the pump. I've been somewhat long winded but when you eliminate the obvious you must consider the possibilities.

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725franky
Thanks for the replies guys! As far as cleaning the trans filter how would I go about that? Does anyone know what size the rubber hoses are (O.D. / I.D.)? ...just thinking that maybe I could stop on my way home tonight and pick up some new hose. Would the proper size coolant hose work (like from Autozone, Advance Auto, or somewhere like that); or do I have to get special hydraulic hose? If I have to re-build the pump is that a project worth while? Thanks for the help / suggestions! -Frank

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D-17_Dave
Don't use coolant hose. It's not made for oil service. Use single jacket soft sided hydraulic hose. I'm not sure of the size. Most likely if it's a big problem in the pump you won't have the needed stuff to do a proper rebuild. It would be easier to replace it with another used unit out of a donor tractor or from someone who's parted one out.

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725franky
Well I still haven't had a chance to measure and get the hydraulic hoses but I did use my tractor on Saturday. I wanted to try pulling with it to see if since replacing the belt it had returned to proper power. Well, I can pull till I lose traction (old, hard rubber, turf tires don't get the best traction). It seems to be back to having the power that it used to. I could actually drag some logs to cut up for fire wood! So far I have found that it had a worn belt and that the linkage wasn't allowed to move far enough in the reverse direction. That is why It wouldn't go anywhere in reverse. Now I still need to find out and see if I can fix the trans fluid leak. It looks like it is leaking where the hydraulic hoses hook up to the "trans" cooler.... I believe that the leakage there is due to the hoses being old and hard. But it looks like it may also be leaking somewhere else. On Friday I stopped, on my way home from work, at a tractor dealership to see about getting a new trans filter and some hydraulic hose. They did have the filter but they didn't know what size the hoses were. The filter was fifty some dollars plus tax! Anyone know where I could get one online for a more reasonable price? Thanks for all of the help so far guys - Frank

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D-17_Dave
If the power level has returned then the filter is flowing as it should. Since the oil seems to be OK and as long as it's not milky looking indicating it's not saturated with water I would remove the filter and clean it and use it again. Flush the system and refill after replacing the hoses. For the hoses use a soft sided single jacket hose. Parker sells their name brand called PUSH LOCK. This is a common used slang word so if you ask for this you may not get Parker but it should be the same thing and it will be adequate.

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RayS
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/searchdb2.cfm the part number is 166147. $44.00 on their site. They sure went up in price I bought one a few years back at my dealer and it was $25.00. Maybe a hydraulic supply house could match it up if you take the old one to them. http://www.normanfilters.com/page18.html They claim they have 15,000 different filters.

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BLT
Parker's Push Lock number is 261-XX. I replaced my hoses three years ago and I think the dash size was 08. Can't get at my tractors now as the lion's share of them are under winter canvas.

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725franky
I had a chance to measure my hydraulic hose last night and it was .5". So I am hoping that today I can stop on my way home from work and pick up some hose.
quote:
Parker's Push Lock number is 261-XX. I replaced my hoses three years ago and I think the dash size was 08. Can't get at my tractors now as the lion's share of them are under winter canvas.
I believe that you would be right on the dash size. Because at the company I work for we use some parker products as well as make some; and on their prints a -4 is equal to .25" while -8 is equal to .5" and so on. Thanks, Frank

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