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dav

what series?

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dav
frequently people refer to their tractors by series; 300, 400, etc, i did a search for 400 series in the site but am not enlightened. the only thing i picked up on was a part of a pic of a RBT in a section on hitches for both 300 and 400 series tractors. all my iron is FDT round hood of the B10 or Landlord style-except for my B-1. what series do i have? at what series will my implements no longer be interchangable?

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alfredr
Is this related, or is this a hijack? My question would be about large frame/ small frame. How large is large, how small is small, or what are the models in each category? I have an AC 310, looks a lot like the picture above. Fenders/seat are not on it yet after working on the BGB (bevel gear box.) (Many months ago.) Thanks.

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Kent
Your implements will not fit the Allis-Chalmers 300/400 series, nor the Allis-manufactured Homelites. From there it gets a bit more complicated trying to describe it. In addition to the Simplcity machines made at the same time as your FDTs, they will also fit Simplicity 3300, 3400, 7000 and 7100 series all the way until the Sovereign was discontinued -- as long as you have the correct hitches and drive pulley setups. The actual attachment points on the front and rear of the tractors are the same throughout the years of production -- until the Sovereign was discontinued. There may be minor changes needed, such as changing the size of the pulleys on snowblowers or tillers to alter the speed (the cone clutch tractors have a bigger PTO drive pulley than the FDTs), so you have to deal with the speed differences... The old FDT snowblades, for example, also will not clear the hood on some of the later RBTs (7100 and later, I think), so you'd have to relocate the arm that the lift rod hooks up to... Note that Simplicity built a newer style, vertical-shaft-engine machine that they called a Landlord during the 1990s that will not interchange without factory-supplied adapter kits. But, with the correct factory adapter kits, you can still use the snowblowers and tillers from the FDTs on the new Conquest and Prestige that you'd buy today... That's certainly not a definitive answer but that's a start... BTW, there's a What Fits section on Simpletractors that's more definitive, coverering up through mid-1980s models...

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MPH
Small frame tractors I believe are all the ones with the engine laying down on the job. All the earlier large frame had horz shaft cast iron briggs in them, somewhere I think in the '70's some twin cly were used. the 300-400 series were AC only with no Simplicity counterpart, due to goverment intervention at the time. Not sure but I think most implements will work with some modifing. Been a while sicne I read it but there is very good history write up on Simple tractors web site, which this club evolved outta.

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Kent
quote:
Originally posted by alfredr
Is this related, or is this a hijack? My question would be about large frame/ small frame. How large is large, how small is small, or what are the models in each category? I have an AC 310, looks a lot like the picture above. Fenders/seat are not on it yet after working on the BGB (bevel gear box.) (Many months ago.) Thanks.
Yours would typically be considered a large-frame -- but its attachments are not compatible with the other Allis and Simplicity models, unless that attachment is a rear attachment that uses the sleeve hitch (also called a Brinley hitch by some)... During the period the Allis 300 and 400 series tractors were made in South Carolina, there was a federal antitrust action against Allis (for buying Simplicity) that required them to make the two tractors different and incompatible with few common parts. As far as major parts, only the tranny and bevel gear box on the Allis 300/400 was interchangeable with the Simplicity, as I understand it, and the small-frame tractors even used totally different trannies... 8:O Example -- your mower deck discharges from the right side, the Simplicity from the left... even the round attachment lift on the rear hitch of the tractor was a different size (though late 400 models and a retrofit kit got it back to the common Simplicity 1"

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Kent
quote:
Originally posted by wilm169
Small frame tractors are like the broodmore-serf-yoeman-B207-208 and the homesteader vertical shaft engines. Large frames are all of the others with horizonal shaft engines.
Well said -- I talked all around the issue, talking about what attachments fit what tractors... :I Large frame = horizontal shaft engines Small frame = vertical shaft engines

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dav
thank you all for the resposes. the reason i asked was that mooseman advertised for a tiller. i had just thrown one onto the top of the load going out to the swap meet at Flywheeler Village next week. i wasn't sure if it would fit a 400. now i see he lives in NY. not many people interested in paying the freight from tampa. drat! since i will be going by the UPS store on the way, i think i will stop and find out just what the rates and requirements are for shipping implements. BTW; i still don't know what series the old B-10 thru 12 is.

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Kent
quote:
Originally posted by dav
BTW; i still don't know what series the old B-10 thru 12 is.
There's no "official name" for them -- the slang we use is typically "round hoods" to differentiate them from the "flat hoods" of the later B-110/210/112/212 era... all those, prior to the 300/400 series, are often grouped together and described as FDTs (foot dragging tractors) to differentiate them from the later RBTs (running board tractors)... It's just slang we've developed to describe our addiction... :D Note that attachments and many parts for the FDTs will generally interchange with no modification needed unless it's required because of the 4" longer wheelbase of the variable speed and hydro models (example - clutch engagement rod for rear tiller drive). Note that the 48" mower deck is an exception -- it simply will not fit underneath the shorter wheelbase tractors like the B-10/B-12...

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PeppyDan
quote:
Originally posted by Kent
quote:
Originally posted by dav
BTW; i still don't know what series the old B-10 thru 12 is.
There's no "official name" for them -- the slang we use is typically "round hoods" to differentiate them from the "flat hoods" of the later B-110/210/112/212 era... all those, prior to the 300/400 series, are often grouped together and described as FDTs (foot dragging tractors) to differentiate them from the later RBTs (running board tractors)... It's just slang we've developed to describe our addiction... :D Note that attachments and many parts for the FDTs will generally interchange with no modification needed unless it's required because of the 4" longer wheelbase of the variable speed and hydro models (example - clutch engagement rod for rear tiller drive). Note that the 48" mower deck is an exception -- it simply will not fit underneath the shorter wheelbase tractors like the B-10/B-12...
The early Allis Chalmers are also known simply as the B series tractors. The B series tractors commonly include all large frame tractors that have the crankshaft of the engine sticking out through the front grill. Dan

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Kent
quote:
Originally posted by PeppyDan The early Allis Chalmers are also known simply as the B series tractors. The B series tractors commonly include all large frame tractors that have the crankshaft of the engine sticking out through the front grill. Dan
Yes, but the "B-Series" or FDT term includes both round-hoods and flat-hoods, which can be an important distinction... For example, all round-hoods are short wheelbase, manual transmission tractors, while flat-hoods could be either short or long wheelbase, and have either manual, variable-speed or hydrostatic trannies... I think we've invented our own language here... :O:D

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PeppyDan
quote:
Originally posted by Kent
quote:
Originally posted by PeppyDan The early Allis Chalmers are also known simply as the B series tractors. The B series tractors commonly include all large frame tractors that have the crankshaft of the engine sticking out through the front grill. Dan
Yes, but the "B-Series" or FDT term includes both round-hoods and flat-hoods, which can be an important distinction... For example, all round-hoods are short wheelbase, manual transmission tractors, while flat-hoods could be either short or long wheelbase, and have either manual, variable-speed or hydrostatic trannies... I think we've invented our own language here... :O:D
I never really thought about that Kent, but you are correct. I guess my preference of RBT's is showing since I just kinda lump all foot draggers as the same.B):I I have a few FDT's which seem to be in the middle of my list to restore but my first tractor was a AC 710 6-speed and I just have a soft spot for that series and the ones after it. In my eyes, the main difference is the way attachments get power from the PTO's and where I park my feet is of less concern because at 6ft tall I have been known to let my legs hang out on any of them and have stopped a RBT from tipping more than once. Dan

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dav
when i went to the Flywheeler Village yesterday to drop off a load of goodies, i saw 2 400 series A-Cs, which i wouldn't have recognized as such if not for this thread. (the show doesn't start until next wednesday but already the place is getting crowded!) guess i wont go to those sites to try and hawk my wares. and last show i had a 48 inch deck sold...until he told me it was for his B-10 and i had to tell him it wouldn't fit. darn! that one sale would have put me over the 'break even' point. guess that's why we call this tractor thing an addiction, if we made money at it, it would be a business.

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