Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Planetary gear advice welcome...


rsnik

Recommended Posts

I have a 7013S which is my second shuttle. I am real good with keeping the shuttle linkages up and adjusted but the planetary gear on both tractors seemed to fail too often (maybe not, I put a lot of hours on them). I grease the planetary gear per the manual, being very careful not to get any dirt in their or overfill and blow out the rear seal when replacing the cap. My current planetary gear has started howling loudly. Just to see what's going on I adjusted all the linkages and removed the cap from the planetary gear while doing that. I put the transmission in neutral and the shuttle in reverse, which engages it, at a relatively high engine speed. It howls like a banshee. I sprayed most of a can of PB Power Blaster into the open hole (not a once, but during several trials) where I had removed the grease cap. Steam (possibly, it was very cold) or smoke comes out of the unit. I pull down the RPMs and pull it out of reverse before I shatter a gear. What I was looking for is if heat is a big factor as that would seem to indicated the gears are not getting lubrication on the shafts they are spinning on and are getting hot as opposed to howling because the gears have worn down and have excess play. The answer is this planetary gear gets hot when it howls. This was a good, silent unit, so I am guessing I got water into it past the seal while power washing it which got into the caged needle bearings in the gears. As well as having the option of repairing the existing planetary gear I have a couple of replacement units. I just cleaned this one up (I don't want to put in one that howls worse than what I got right now. Here's some pics:


The gears come off but the bronze spacers are either frozen on or else they don't come off. As I mentioned, I wonder if moisture gets into the caged needle bearings inside the gears instead of lubricant and caused the gears to turn hard on the shafts? Some close ups of the caged needle bearings:




These needle bearings don't look good at all and frankly I can't see them holding up unless you serviced them carefully and often or replaced them regularly. I thought the gears showed no wear until I looked closely. You can clearly see indented wearing marks in the close up shots. Could this be why the unit starts howling?




The surface of the shafts the needle bearings ride on show evidence that moisture gets in and may be a big part of the problem:




Lastly, the seal for the unit consists of an "O" ring that seats in the round groove at the edge of the housing:


If the cover plate works loose at all I can just see water intrusion occurring when power washing as this "O" ring seal is pretty small. Any and all recommendations are very welcome.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

unless the rust you showed in the pictures on the surfaces was when you cleaned them up, I would say water or moisture has been in there for a wile. and there now ceasing up do to the cold temps. you could clean them up and run until they blow or leave you stranded. or just find parts new and get new seals and be done for the next 20 + years by the way this is the drive pulley planetary or on the axle?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nathan, The pics are of the planetary gear drive of a shuttle transmission. The pics are not from the drive on the tractor. I took a spare unit apart looking for a clue as to why my 7013S planetary gear started howling. I was thinking moisture. I am of the hillbilly repair school which believes if it ain't broke don't fix it and if it is, see if it don't just need some PB Power Blaster. Anything that can be fixed without removing a tire gets points and if you can get away without removing the part itself, that's extra points. We done real good this time with the planetary drive. Joe Himmi just parted out a 7013S and I bought everything priced at 99 cents and just crammed more new-to-you parts up the, uh, back of the tractor than you can shake a stick at. That's easy work though and does not involve removing the tire so no points lost. I got a great looking new planetary drive from Joe in this batch of parts, but no sense wasting it if we can get this unit to come back to life, which it should. It did. After days of shooting PB Power Blaster in there with the cap off the unit here is a shot (it looks stopped because of the camera but it is spinning at WOT):


This is with the transmission in neutral and the shuttle in reverse with the engine at WOT so the planetary is fully stressed with the planetary gears spinning at full speed. No smoke, no noise, everything working perfectly. I have packed the unit with grease per the manual every season but I think the lubrication does not get into those caged, needle bearings but moisture does. I repacked the unit with grease (runs really quiet packed with grease) and replaced the cap without removing the wheel. One of these old, soft metal punches are instrumental, because you will beat the heck out of the cap trying to tap it back on without removing the wheel without one:


At the end of the day I should get some Red Green points for fixing something without removing a wheel, the non-working part itself or using any replacement parts. Unfortunately, no duct tape or bailing wire was involved and major injuries involved less than 3 people so no joy on that. However, here is a pic of my rear weight "system":


I believe this may qualify me to run for elected office at Possum Lodge!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
The gears and bronze spacers should slide right off the shaft and the shaft (pinion) should be just as smooth & shiny as a set of new chromed handlebars. The cap on my 7014s has a right angle zirk fitting in the center of it. If yours doesn't have 1, I'd add it. Then I would pump it full before power washing. As a preemptive measure, you might want to drain both gearboxes and re fill with NEW lube. Also spray through the breathers with carb cleaner while the old lube is draining. The breather area is relatively easy to find on the top of the BGB but I forget exactly where the one on the transmission is located. The breather is just a hole in the cast iron that they fill with tiny pressed brass balls, usually about 3/8 dia., and it acts as both a breather and a filter. My advise is: Don't power wash that area so good and also stay away from the breather ports on the transmission, BGB, and the very top of the transmission where the selector shaft slides in & out. - I don't see anything wrong with your counter weights except that some duct tape might better secure everything. M. Brozak
Link to comment
Share on other sites

good deal, that's nice to hear you got it running again. :D as far as the weights goes "if it works use it". also you must not have the rear lift right. just a thought I had with your hitch, maybe if you had one you could back up to your trailer and lower you hitch lift up and go. ya like your hitch set up. good job ps if you where closer I could give you some parts to fix it and get it up and running. if I had not pitched it yet? that's how I work with friends. you help me I help you. have a good day.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might be a good idea to use Marine type grease to coat those bearings with. Avoiding the area or covering when power washing may help also.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the excellent observations and advice. Last fall I closed out the garden by putting the wheels of the 7013S in the furrows and driving down the rows with the 42" deck on, shredding the dead corn, tomato, egg plant stalks and just turned everything into mulch before rototilling it under. This particular garden soil is so amended it's practically all saw dust and no stones so it does not hurt the deck. Worked great but got the tractor real dirty. The planetary was not howling at that time. I power washed the shuttle drive area, rigged the tractor for snow with the blade, chains etc and put it away. I likely caused water intrusion into the planetary by excessive power washing at that time. I bet I did get water into the BGB as well, through the breather. I will drain and refill it ASAP. Both Lucas and Morey's make a lube oil additive that is supposed to help rust and corrosion in a gear box. I think I'll add some when refilling. A right angle zerk fitting is a great idea. Making it easier to service will likely result in better care. I wonder if a Bearing Buddy cap would fit? Marty, I just checked and I do have marine grade lube in the grease gun. I hate running out of grease in the gun and not having a spare so I grab some spare grease tubes when I am getting oil or whatever and I have to remember to grab the marine grade. I power wash and lube the deck frequently and I must be getting water into the bearings in the spindles as well. I threw the "weights" on temporarily as it was about to snow. I do have a clean set up with a threaded pipe length that replaces the ball on the hitch and I load weights from a weight lifting set onto the pipe. Works great because you can add weight in increments. Even slightly too much weight when it's cantilevered out there like that causes the front tires to lose grip and you can't turn the tractor. Way too much and you are doing a wheely. Someday wheel weights will rise to the top of the "parts needed" list :p.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...