Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Command Help - she runs again.


cwm1276

Recommended Posts

My 18HP command in my 7117 started spitting oil out from the right cylinder above the starter. I was headed out to blow snow and barely out of the garage and white smoke start rolling out from under the hood. I shut it down right away and flipped the hoop. Looks like oil was coming out some where between the cylinder and the air filter. The white smoke looks to be from oil hitting the muffler. (I warmed it up a bit in the garage to get the hydro warmed up) Pushed it back in the garage (thankfully the rearend was not even out yet!) with the hood up I started it quick 1 more time and confirmed oil coming out from the same location. No smoke this time as the hood was up. During all of this It sounded fine, no bangs or any weird noises. It just was spitting out oil. Is it a head gasket? seemed to be squirting out a little seam possibly where a gasket went bad? What could have caused it and how hard of a fix am I looking at? Off to find a book on the commands. Thanks Everyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could very well be the head gasket. I blew one on my 20hp command about 4 years ago. I wasn`t shutting the engine down at 1/2 to full throttle like I was suppose to athe backfiring caused it to blow the head gasket.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by Burntime
So on my kt-17 I should be shutting it down at 1/2 throttle? I usually idle it down. If course if I am impatient it still pops!!!sm00
I would do what ever the operators manual says for your tractor. My Prestige manual says to shut it off at 1/2 to full throttle. And I wasn`t doing that and that is what the dealer says caused the head gasket to blow. My carburetor on the Command engine has a fuel shut off solenoid on it. Dealer told me if it has fuel shut off solenoid it needs to be shut off at 1/2 to full throttle. If I do it that way it doesn`t backfire.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, I have an email into Al since it was a repower kit I put in it. I am thinking I will pull the engine and then try to tear into it. What is the level of difficulty in such an endeavor? Or would I be better off pulling the engine and taking it somewhere? I don't want to try to move the whole tractor especially with snow and a wet yard. I would rather pull the engine and lift it then push the tractor. The kolher service manual looks pretty straight forward to tear it down, and I would not have to go all the way to just get the head gasket. Of course my next opertunity I will check the breather as I already have the air filter assembly off, so that looks to be an easy check.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Burntime, KT engines need to be idled down and run for a minute at idle or they will backfire. You do not want any engine to backfire. It is very hard on things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i work at a simplicity dealer, if its coming out from the breather area, kohler had problems with the breather gasket blowing out,and oil would squirt out, the new fix was a gasket with permatex impregnated into it(and locite on the bolts). check the valve covers too
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by MikeES
Burntime, KT engines need to be idled down and run for a minute at idle or they will backfire. You do not want any engine to backfire. It is very hard on things.
Thats what I do and sometimes I in a rush I shut it down too quickly. Would choking it eliminate the backfire?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:
Originally posted by Burntime
quote:
Originally posted by MikeES
Burntime, KT engines need to be idled down and run for a minute at idle or they will backfire. You do not want any engine to backfire. It is very hard on things.
Thats what I do and sometimes I in a rush I shut it down too quickly. Would choking it eliminate the backfire?
On my KT17 I always idle it down outside and then back it into the garage under idle, then key off and have never had a backfire. But Saturday, I was in a hurry to go from the tractor to the walk behind snow thrower, so I pulled up and stopped the tractor and keyed it off while at about 1/2 throttle, then I closed the throttle as it was winding down. It just stopped rotating, then, BANG. :(! I new as soon as I keyed it off that I didn't shut it down correctly and was waiting for the backfire. Started back up and doesn't seem any worse for the backfire.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update, I had time today to start tearing into it. First I got the snowblower and hood off. With those out of hte way and little better light I started it one more time, after I but more oil in. I don't think it is the head gasket now. The oil is coming from middle of the engine more. So after looking at the service manual more I suspect that breather gasket. Then I started to remove the engine, as looks it is much easier to service out of the tractor since it goes backwards in our simplicitys. I have the engine loose now and figured it was now a good time to print the disassembly instructions from Kohler. Hopefully tomorrow I can get the engine completely loose and start the Kohler instructions of Disassembly. Trying to decide now if I can just work on the engine sitting on the front of the tractor, or try to lift it out of the tractor. I don't anything to lift the engine and not sure I want to try the armstrong method by myself.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my 1920 with a command, I shut it off at an idle and right after I shut the key off (engine is winding down with the key switch off) I put the throttle wide open. Never had a back fire. Just my 2 cents. Hope you have an easy fix!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Found it! The breather gasket. Once got the throttle and choke controls loose and the carb off. It was just two more metal shields that I could twist loose without taking the large plastic sheild off the back of the engine, meaning I did not have to pull remove the drive shaft. 8D Then it there it was the gasket blew out on the number 1 cylinder side. So I have removed the cover of the breather and pealed away the old gasket. So the gasket is now in a bag an I will head to the local Kohler dealer too hopefully find a new gasket. So what tips everyone on putting this thing back together? Anti-sieze stuff? extra gasket sealer stuff?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just as a curiousity, why is it that kholers have this 1/2 throttle procedure and briggs never seem to have an issue regardless?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my 15.5 hp Briggs. it says to let the engine idle for a couple of minutes before shutting it off. I was told this is to let the muffler cool to the point that any gas fumes leaving the engine during coast down will not ignite and cause a back fire. Doesn't always work though8C Chris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With my briggs engines I always run them way down to ilde for the slowest speed when it is shut off. Just seems friendlier that way. I know later briggs have an after-fire solenoid for that reason, but I have not seen much effect out of the one I saw.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the Old(left) and new gaskets.


Kohler closed up as bunch of the opening. Especially in the upper Right hand sides. Which is where mine blew out. The other break was from me pulling it off the plate that covers the entire gasket with just couple of openings for the breather tube and possible oil sentry. On Edit I did not realize how big the Picture still was, my normal picture software was not working tonight.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She runs! Just 2 last issues to resolve. 1. in fiddling with the carburator I got the control rod that adjusts the throttle loose, now looking at the manual I see my mistake. I just have to take half if back apart to fix, as I hope I do not have to remove the carburator again. 2. I lost a bolt the holds the engine in the tractor. Who knows what happened to it. I lost the bolt and nut. So I will stop at the hardware store tomorrow and pick one up.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Update: got the throttle connected properly. I had throtle open, but it would not close. To fine out I had not adjusted the govenor properly. I now have throttle control from my seat again. Also while working that I found that missing bolt. It was covered in the oil dry under and around the tractor. Too bad I had the other bolt in the house ready to match up at the hardware store. So one more trip out and I should be able to bolt the last things up. Left to do. 1. 2 Engine bolts 2. 2 hood bolts. 3. connect headlight wires. Just need to wait for it to dry outside and warm up a bit and I will be all ready to put the tiller on.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nearly Finished. I was out driving around last night with it, minus the hood. Anyone have some good tips for removing little pockets of Oil? Since I did not tear it all the way down I found around the 1 cylinder oild blowing up when it is running. Not much, I suspect it is just trapped under some of the shielding of the engine. As I was driving around I just was getting white smoke coming off the engine and outside of the muffler where oil had acumulated. I could not see any visable leaks and still need to run it more to and keep checking the oil to verify no leaks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...