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Kent

Question re: Article, weights and axle tubes...

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Kent
Interesting questions raised. I recently purchased 30# wheel weights for next winter, and have the standard rear counterweight to help lifting the plow etc, but I am leery of adding a weightbox per se. Now, I've noticed my 2110 has some side to side play in the rear end, the trans can shift side to side on the axle tubes by about 1/8 to 1/4". Seems harmless enough. Is this something to be concerned about? An adjustment? Or.......normal? Terry

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dmcluckie
>> CAUTION - WARNING << ??? Wouldn't hurt..! Some may read it..! Others may even believe it..! Just like ladders. I never stood on the top step or the paint tray before there were labels. Others still do. So why do the manufacturers post all the warnings? ** CYA **

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SmilinSam
Terry you will have some side to side play where the axle tube enters the trans housing on each side. So what you describes sounds normal to me from all the Simplcitys that I have owned. Now if the play is in the axle shaft slideing in and out of the tube then this needs to be adjusted out by tightening the axle collers so that full contact is made on the keys in there keyways. But if there is play back and forth not side to side in the axle hub-diff.-or between the axle tube and the axle shaft this is enough in any of these area's for concern. There are keyways and keys for each of these idems above and if they get play in them its time to change the keys and clean out the keyways. Also there is a bushing inside the right rear hub that can cause some play and by replacing this bushing will help in that area. Sometimes if the keyways are shot "worn out" larger keys have to be adapted after the keyways have been enlarged to accept them. But sometimes this can just be a temperary fix depending on how its done. The differial also has key slots that will allow play that should be taken care of. Any play that is found other then what you descriped should be addressed and the sooner the better as each time the axle rotates back and forth the keys will rock in there keyways causeing more wear. The keyways in the axle tube where the axle shaft come together is very important as this play lets in time the keys to roll over inside the tube between the axle shaft and can force the tube to crack around those areas. Plus these stress crack in time become weak and when to much stress or torque is applied causes these weakened area's to fail thus a broken axle tube or something else. I have learned over the years to keep an eye on these area's so that when I see some play I normally can just replace the keys and deburr the keyways which prolongs the long of everything in that area. I might have gotten somethings mixed up but someone can correct me if needed without harm. Thanks, >>->happyjack<-<<

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richters2
Kent in anwser to your question about whether you should put a warning per your amount of weight or the way you used your tractor I would maybe put something like "using you older tractor like this may be cause for heart failure" if you hear and feel something break. "OR" Using your tractor this way is better left to professional tractor riders like myself and may be hazardous to your tractor health.:) >>->happyjack<-<<

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SmilinSam
This kind of question can go off in many different directions so I'll just touch on one of them. I dont think weight by itself is an issue, not even for the old worn tractor. It is, as Kent hit on to begin with, the sudden starts(mainly gear drive/clutch) and quick change of directions(Hydro) that is going to do the damage. Weight is merely something that is going to magnify the damage done, as is a slightly loose keyway. If a operator is careful and knows his machine to begin with, and uses common sense, one should need not be overly concerned about extra weight. Take for instance an average B-10. 700 lbs to startwith. L-12 loader, another 355 lbs. Pair of wheel weights 90 lbs. and say a 200 lb rider. Thats already 1345 lbs and the manufacturer added a weight box that could hold I suppose another 150 lbs for a total of around 1500lbs . Rear counter weight and fluid is only another 100 lbs or so. I dont think the manufacturer considered this excessive given the design of the loader and the recommended accesories for it. I dont think one is going to get that much weight on a tractor using just Johnny Bucket. Smilin Sam stericson@winco.net

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Kent
Someone emailed me with a very considerate caution, after reading my Johnny Bucket product review article. He was concerned about the strain I was putting on my tractor's axle tubes running fluid filled ag tires, then hanging an additional counterweight on it, and then pushing and dozing... I realized at the time that I was straining the tractor and tried to be as gentle as possible in the movements -- no sudden stops, starts, trying to avoid spinning, etc. I have since removed the counterweight, since the "dozing" is over. I'm going to try checking the play in mine, just to see if I've done any damage so far... My question to the group at large is do you think I should put a "Caution" in that article about the potential to break an axle tube if they try doing what I just did. The last thing I want is for someone to mimic me, and then damage their tractor.... What do you think?

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SmilinSam
Were there ever any such warnings or cautionary statements attached to the L-10 and L-12 loaders in regards to the same subject? The weights and stresses surrounding one of those loaders would likely be much greater than the Johnny Bucket. Sam

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SmilinSam
I am so long winded I timed out again-happyjackl@mediaone.net Hello Kent, If I recall the front loaders do have weight ratings for themselves as far as lifting ect. My concerns with the axle tubes are on older tractors like we have that are subjected to what a new tractor would be capible of doing. Are engines still have the same power in most cases but the rest of the drive train it would seem would weaken over a period of time. I do know from a personal experince that if you take one of these tractors and put the front of it up againest a brick wall with all that weight that you had on yours and let the clutch out in first gear it would have enough power to turn the rear tires over. Point being something has to give somewhere if the tires are getting so much traction. Whether the engine stalls-belt slips-drive shaft fails or even the axle shaft breaks. Our little tractors were designed to be abused when new but its what happens when the torque meets the ground without any give or very little something will give at one time or another. If someone hasn't done any preventive matenince making sure that there tractors drive-train is tight without play in the keys or keyways of the axleshaft- hub's-diff.-or adjusted the end play out then this leaves in my opinion the possibility more then not of something breaking. We all know how common it is for the axle tube to break even while being under very little stress but possibly do to stress or wear earlier in its life. There is no way to tell what shape out tube is in from us just looking at it so the only way in my opinion is to lighten up the load just a bit and let the rear tires spin with less resistance for possibly a longer life. It is a real "heart stopper" to hear and feel the tube pop and break with trans fuild leaking out the first time and the second time is no better. Hopefully someone can describe just how the play in the keys and keyways should be checked as I can't do it clear enough at this time. Also hopefully someone else like Al-Jeff-Bill-or anyone that I have forgotten to mention can give their opinion about this or for that matter just anyone that can do it. I am not trying to scare anyone but trying to limit the members that may hear that sound of the axle tube or for that matter any other part breaking. One thing to also remember is sometimes when an axle tube fails it will wipe out the side of the trans housing along with it so there's another expence in itself and the hydro housing are getting very hard to find. I for one reallly use my tractors and I reallly pay the price from my stupidity but I do so knowingly but there's others that don't untill its to late and just maybe if they arn't aware of this problem then they will be now. One important thing here is that this problem is not meant as a negative remark about the Johney Buckey its with any type of daily use of our tractors whether rolling our lawns-plowing snow-or pulling a heavy loaded trailer and many more so as to make this clear and not to single Kent or the Johney Bucket out in any way shape or form. This is just my opinion and its not subject to change :) been there and done it. Thanks to all, >>->happyjack<-<<

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dlcentral
If weights or loaded tires aren't used then it's no more straining than a snow-plow or garden plow.That's why we all need spare trannys,,for parts!.We're grossing OVER 2000 lbs with a modified,unlimited weight puller,[3118 3spd.]will let you know how that axle holds up.You can't stress it more than that!.

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MikeES
AXLE TUBES - Here is a trick that I use as a Garden Tractor Puller. Clamp two 1-1/4" muffler clamps on the axle tube between the grease zerk fitting and the tranaxle housing. This will not prevent a tube from breaking BUT IT WILL PROTECT THE CAST IRON TRANSAXLE HOUSING FROM BUSTING OUT WHEN THE AXLE TUBE BREAKS. PS. don't screw the clamps on too tight, they will mark and maybe distort the axle tube. Mike S.

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Kent
MikeES, Thanks for the trick. Sounds like "cheap insurance" to those of us who use our garden tractors for tractors, and not just riding mowers.... You're talking about the right axle tube, aren't you? How do you space the clamps? One close to the zerk and one close to the tranny housing, or what? Thanks! Kent

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Kent
MikeES, Could you send Kent a closeup picture for the DIY section..? That sounds like an important "trick" to know. Thanks for sharing.

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Kent
Well, since it doesn't really hurt anything, I added a "Caution" to the page where I talked about adding weight.... Thanks to everyone for your insight and opinion! Kent[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/operation/johnny_bucket_jr_.htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/operation/johnny_bucket_jr_.htm[/a]

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Guest
Thanks Happyjack, this>> (you will have some side to side play where the axle tube enters the trans housing on each side. So what you described sounds normal to me from all the Simplcitys that I have owned) >>>>is exactly what I see happening. And It's probably a good idea to inspect the keys/keyways for any wear . Thanks for the helpful tip. Terry Thanks mikeES, I have a spare tranny in the shed with a busted right axle tube, with a clamp around it. Perhaps the original owner had the same idea? Anyways, the trans housing seems okay, so it works!

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stevejj56
Hi All, I think the cautions are a good idea. The warnings and cautions on products are because someone has used a product in a way that has caused harm and they tried to sue. Someone might want to use the Johnny Bucket to lift their car? I don't think anyone on this forum would try anything crazy. I'm fixing up a loader that was homemade in the 70's. When its ready to use,i will expect the front axle or spindles to break. I'm not going to abuse it but I've used loaders on Cub Cadets and things give. I have spare parts on stand by. I'd buy a Johnny Bucket if i didn't have the loader,but I'm going to tell some friends that might want to buy one. Steve J

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