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midnightpumpkin

B-210 PTO question

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midnightpumpkin
I am trying to get a mower deck set up on the B-210 we restored a while back. The issue I am having is that the idler pulley is hitting the drive pulley on the BGB when the PTO is engaged. I believe I have the correct belts 157683 (29.2 x 1/2 inch) on the PTO and 108248 (48.1 x 1/2 inch) from the PTO to the mower deck. Can someone verify that the idler pulley is supposed to be 3 1/2 inch diameter? The part number for the correct idler pulley is 164268, I have no direct way of verifying if I have the correct pulley installed. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks, John U

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RayS
It is listed as a 3-1/2" pulley at the link below. http://phoenix-mfg.com/acatalog/Replacement_Pulleys.html Flat Idler Pulley 3-1/2" 3-1/2" od; 3/8" bore; heavy duty; replaces Allis Chalmers 2087950; AYP / Roper / Sears 9492h; Noma / AMF / Dynamark 13469; Simplicity 164268; Toro 1431040 Retail Price - Each: $19.24

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midnightpumpkin
quote:
Originally posted by UCD
Do you have the tension spring in place and tension rod and handle engaged?
Yes, it is when I engage the tension spring that the idler pulley hits the drive pulley. I tried a shorter (46 inch) belt on the spindle drive, it puts way too much tension on the center spindle of the deck. It looks like a shorter belt on the PTO drive may help, but I believe I have the correct belt now????? I'll post a picture tomorrow. John U

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JimDk
John, You may have worn pulleys. Your belt runs a little lower in both pulleys as they wear. Also, check your shaft that the pto pivots on. I have had oblong holes worn in the side plates and a groove worn in the shaft. This condition lets the pto move up when you engage the idler. I have some of these problems with my B-212. I use a slightly shorter belt as a temporary fix. Good luck, Jim

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UCD
The tension spring I am talking about is #29 Rod & handle are #27 - 28 The tension handle #27 has to be in the up position pulling the PTO asy back tighting the deck belt and will also tighten the PTO belt #19 some so that the idler pulley #1 does not hit the lower PTO pulley #30.


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midnightpumpkin
quote:
Originally posted by UCD
The tension spring I am talking about is #29 Rod & handle are #27 - 28 The tension handle #27 has to be in the up position pulling the PTO asy back tighting the deck belt and will also tighten the PTO belt #19 some so that the idler pulley #1 does not hit the lower PTO pulley #30.
[img]/club2/attach/UCD/PTO200Series.JPG[/img]

UCD, That's exactly what I have except that when lever 27 tensions the spring, it pulls the lower shaft and pulleys back past center so that the PTO belt actually gets loosens up some. A shorter PTO belt (19) as JimDK suggests may help the situation. John U

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JimDk
John, Are you sure that your cross drive belt is correct. You did not say which deck you are using. 42" and 48" decks require different belts. From your last post, it sure sounds like your pto is pulling back too far.

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UCD
B-200 series Belts 2029948 B-210 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 Length 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029949 B-210 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 Length 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029950 B-212 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 Length 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029951 B-212 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 Length 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029952 HB-212 Drive Belt# 2166172 Length 47.1" Type HA Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 Length 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029953 HB-212 Drive Belt# 2166172 47.1" Type HA Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2157683 29.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 22" Type 3/8 Attachments 990575 42" Rotary Mower Double "V" Belt# 2168171 length 48.9" Type 3V See Note 1 Arbor Drive Belt# 1723391 Length 82.0" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 990576 48" Rotary Mower Double "V" Belt# 2108854 length 45" Type 3V See Note 2 Arbor Drive Belt# 2165048 Length 85.2" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 Note 1 * Can be converted to a Single Belt Drive. Order kit - 2103275 (for 42" Rotary Mower, includes all conversion parts.) Replacement Belt is Belt# 2174364 Length 49.1" Type HA Note 2 * Can be converted to a Single Belt Drive. Order kit - 2103274 (for 48" Rotary Mower, includes all conversion parts.) Replacement Belt is Belt# 2166172 Length 47.1" Type HA
B-110 series belts 2029902 B-110 Drive Belt# 2154273 Length 42.3" Type HB Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2121078 Length 35.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 22" Type 3/8 2029903 B-110 Drive Belt# 2154273 Length 42.3" Type HB Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2121078 Length 35.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029927 B-110 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2121078 Length 35.1." Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22." Type 3/8 2029928 B-110 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 1607323 Length 37.5" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2121078 Length 35.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 Attachments 990501 42" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2174911 Length 44.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 1723391 Length 82.0" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 990414 48" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2108458 Length 45.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 2165048 Length 85.2" Type HA Blade# 1656143A Qty 3
2029900 B-112 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2164146 Length 34.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029901 B-112 Variable Drive Belt# 2164080 Length 54" Type H I Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2164146 Length 34.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029931 HB-112 Drive Belt# 2166172 Length 47.1" Type HA Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2164146 Length 34.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 2029932 HB-112 Drive Belt# 2166172 Length 47.1" Type HA Generator Belt# 2157524 Length 39.1" Type 3/8 P.T.O. Belt# 2164146 Length 34.1" Type HA Power Lift Belt# 2157230 Length 22" Type 3/8 Attachments 990502 48" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2108458 Length 45.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 2165048 Length 85.2" Type HA Blade# 1656143A Qty 3 990544 42" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2108248 Length 45.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 1723391 Length 82.0" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 2025033 42" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2108248 Length 45.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 1723391 Length 82.0" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 2025080 42" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2174911 Length 44.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 1723391 Length 82.0" Type HA Blade# 1656144A Qty 3 2025097 48" Rotary Mower Cross Drive Belt# 2108458 Length 45.1" Type HA Arbor Drive Belt# 2165048 Length 85.2" Type HA Blade# 1656143A Qty 3


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Tom45
Also check all of the pivot shaft mounting holes. On my B110 there are two different holes that one of the pivots can mount to. If in the wrong one, it will hit as you describe. Tom

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midnightpumpkin
OK, Tom45 gets the prize for solving the issue. Refering to the diagram UCD posted, lever item 27 actually has two holes to attach the tension rod item 28. The diagram I was using for Mfg. No. 990568 shows these two holes UCD's diagram shows only one hole. I used the hole furthest from the pivot per the diagram. This put too much tension on the cross drive belt and pulled the PTO lower pulley back past center. When I moved the linkage to the hole closer to the pivot, the tension on the cross drive belt felt about right and the idler pulley did clear the PTO drive pulley, but just barely. Here is a picture of the PTO pulleys with the PTO engaged.
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2619/4138464149_729a6fc4a0.jpg[/img]
And a closeup of the idler pulley, too close for comfort.
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4138464245_2d6f18def4.jpg[/img]
Since I did not have a shorter 28" belt available, it decided to try a 3" diameter idler pulley, which I did have on hand.
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/4138464645_5b68b0c394.jpg[/img]
Here is a closeup showing the idler pulley clearance, I can live with this on a 40 year old tractor.
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2736/4139227080_bc047683b5.jpg[/img]
Finally here is a picture of the whole tractor and deck. The deck is a 990407 as near as I can tell. It has 3 bolt spindles and a spring loaded tensioner for the spindle belt.
[img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/4139226996_219453bd40.jpg[/img]
Thank you to all who contributed to helping me solve this problem, once again the club proves it worth! John U

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JimDk
John, I'm glad that you got it fixed. I will try a 3" idler pulley on my B-212 next spring. By-the-way, your B-210 is very nice. That's the model that got me into A/C's about 25 years ago. We still use ours, but it no longer looks that good. Jim

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Tom45
On my B110. there are (2) holes in the large bracket, 13, for the idler pivot bracket, item 2 to pivot in. The idler pulley will hit the V belt pulley if in the wrong hole. Tom

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midnightpumpkin
Thanks Tom, The problem is solved, but now I have to go out in the dark, cold rainy night to satisfy my curiosity as to whether my large bracket has two holes for the idler pivot! Ha Made my trip to the barn, the B-210 main bracket has only one set of holes for the idler pivot. We welded a new oversixed stud to the pivot and opened these holes up so there is no slop in that area. What I do see now is that the hole in the side plate where main PTO pivot shaft goes through are elongated. That is probably where the slop is coming in. John U

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