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LesH

Gasket Sealers/ Gaskets-----------------------

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LesH
I have a cast iron transmission (using 32 ounces of 90W gear oil insude) that I am putting back together for my tractor. What would the best sealer be to use?? Reason I am asking is that last year I had the same transmission apart and used the factory paper gasket and Permatex sealant, well I checked the transmission a few weeks ago, after I couldn't shift out of reverse---it was almost out of oil..... The permatex I used has a shelf life of 2 years. The tube I had was older and did not seal...... Hopefully after I check the insides I did not destroy it..........

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D-17_Dave
If the gasket materials are only paper thin and you don't need the gasket thickness to space the insides (and I don't think this is the case) then I'd just use some permatex sealant only and put it back together. Now then, which to use. I use only the Orange high temp sealant due to it's spreading characteristics. I don't like the blue due to the clumping it does. The orange will spread more consistently and not make so much mess. If I use a gasket, I take my finger and spread the thinnest layer of sealant on both sides of the gasket that I can. This is designed to make up for imperfections in the metal surface. If I don't use a gasket, spread a thin layer out and use your fingers to create a small ridge in the center of the mating surface. One side is sufficient. Just enough to get squeezed out slightly when the two halves are tightened. This has worked for me in all types of applications with good results.

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PhanDad
I grew up using Permatex Aviation gasket form a gasket sealer - a can with a brush in the cap. I guess I should move into the new world? Tell me more about the Permatex blue or orange sealant. Is it silicone? I've had one bad experience with silicone sealant. Somebody used it on a BGB cover and when I drained the fluid, chunks of silicone came out with the fluid. Opened the box up and there were bits of silicone everywhere. I suspect the PO used way too much sealant. But how do you know that the extra sealant isn't bulging out from the mating surfaces on the inside just waiting to become many foreign objects in the lube?

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Vassal
My choices for this from Permatex; Ultra Black Ultra Copper They are RTV aerobic sealants (room temperature vulcanizing with exposure to air). I suspect that an anaerobic sealer would probably be better for this application. GM and others have use anaerobic sealers for a while now on differential cases and other apps where the parts come together very closely, which (I suppose) calls for a sealer that cures in ABSENCE of air (anaerobic). Here's a snip from Permatex describing their anaerobic gasket maker 51813: OEM specified. Noncorrosive gasketing material designed primarily for use on aluminum, iron, and steel flanged mating surfaces. Ideal for on-the-spot and emergency repairs, or when a conventional gasket is unavailable. Fills gaps up to .015" and cures to a solvent-resistant seal that will not tear or decay during service. Parts disassemble easily even after extended service and old gasket material can be removed in minutes with a simple putty knife. Suggested Applications: Water pumps, thermostat housings, transmission pans, transmission case covers, transaxle casings, o-ring replacement

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Vassal
Forgot to mention, the anaerobic stuff is not cheap at about $26 for less than TWO ounces on Amazon.com!! It's one of those deals where it's good, not cheapXX( Bill, I've learned the lesson the hard way with sealants - more is rarely better especially on cases or flanges that are sturdy and flat. These applications don't require a lot of 'build' to seal good unless you have gouges or nicks to fill and any excess is going to go right where you don't want it!!

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pungo
We make Permatex silicone gasket sealer where I work(I can't name the Company). There is an Art to using silicone adhesive properly.If the Label says 100 Percent silicone then there is little difference between Standard and High Temperature versions save the black or red pigment.The same bulk sealant comes from a tanker and the pigment is added before tubing operations. That said, it is my learned opinion that silicone sealant,gasket maker,adhesive is too difficult for the average Consumer to use and get a good seal on critical engine and transmission components to make it worthwhile. Knowing the good Members here are not average here is my take on usage. Use fresh Product, every tube has a Use By Date, usually stamped into the crimp or displayed on the package. Squeeze out a little to "Start"The tube, trapped air when tubing can create a small pocket of semi-cured sealant at the cap. A UNIFORM coating on the surface is applied,around bolt holes and all flat surfaces.Most people apply too much.Then WAIT till the Product skims over.Room Temperature Vulcanizing Sealants(RTV) mean just that.Cure times vary dramatically in cold or humid weather. After sealant has cured to a skim consistency(here comes the Art)the mating surfaces are bolted together,tightening in a cross pattern EQUALLY,with firm pressure but not OVERTIGHTENING.This takes awhile, look for the sealant to just start to ooze,then go to the opposite side.Have good lighting and work with the random tightening sequence until there is a UNIFORM amount of oozed sealant showing around the edge, THEN QUIT! After waiting 30 minutes or so depending on the Temperature torque as normal. If VOIDS in the oozed sealant bead appear you must dissassemble and clean the surface and try again. Nascar Mechanics are the best at using this stuff. If you wish to just add some additional sealing properties to a gasket I recommend a light coating of Indian Head Shellac, a Product that has been around a long time and proved its mettle.I believe Permatex makes a variation of this but I do not know the name. With Indian Head,coat,tighten in random order and torque, run engine or use Trans till warm,then torque again. She will not leak unless mating surfaces were not cleaned or are scored severely. If you wish to really seal cases together there is Volkswagon Engine Case Cement.You will have to get this from a Dealer and follow all instructions to the letter,it is a good Product.It is designed for the older Air-cooled Bug and Bus motors but will work in other applications.

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timflury
An old trick I learned when I was based in England when I was in the service. If we needed to make a gasket, we used paper grocery bag material and whatever sealer we had that was still good.. It was a pain, but it worked. I would now go with the Permatex Black, or high temp red based on the application.

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D-17_Dave
quote:
Originally posted by PhanDad
I guess I should move into the new world? Tell me more about the Permatex blue or orange sealant. Is it silicone? I've had one bad experience with silicone sealant. Somebody used it on a BGB cover and when I drained the fluid, chunks of silicone came out with the fluid. Opened the box up and there were bits of silicone everywhere. I suspect the PO used way too much sealant. But how do you know that the extra sealant isn't bulging out from the mating surfaces on the inside just waiting to become many foreign objects in the lube?
Yes, it's silicone based. The material you noticed in the BGB was most likely due to using too much material as you thought. The PO was able to wipe off the outside but the over used amount inside broke free and circulated with the oil. Since there is no real areas where this material could do any damage your most likely OK there, but this could be death to small oil passages inside an engine. The trick as stated above is use this very sparingly. Understand that after the two surfaces are mated the distance between the surfaces is immeasurable. It won't take much more than a film of material to fill the gap.

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Willy
I like Hi-Tack it comes in a spray can,you lay out your gasket and spray a fine coat on both sides let it tack up for a little while until when you touch it it will stick to your finger. The stuff works great and has a lot longer shelf life.

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powerking_one
I have been very satified with the Permatex "Right Stuff" gasket maker. True, it is pricey, but it makes a better gasket than the silicone based products. Tom(PK)

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Cvans
Honda and Yamaha both make excellent forma-gasket. I believe they go by the names of Yamabond and Hondabond. They are used for sealing motorcycle cases and I have had excellent results with both. Very easy to use. Check the dealer price as I recall there being quite a difference between the two. Good luck, Chris

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Robert_Rainwater
I started using Ultra Black when Felpro gaskets came with the recommendation to use ultra black on the front and back of intake manifolds on auto engines. Robert

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Michiganmobileman
Pungo, your information is pricelessdOddOd. I have never followed that sequence before but I think you have me convinced now, it just makes sense!. I have always used a thin coat of RTV on both sides of a gasket. Tightened up slowly and torqued. Been farting around with stuff since my first motorcycle in 1975. Seems to work good for me with the key being just a little bit. Greg

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MikeES
I use Peramtex Ultra high temp (orange/copper) form-a-gasket. I use only this, no paper gaskets. I have used it on oil pans, BGBs, and transaxles with no leaks. Everywhere on the engine except the head. Note: need to use sparingly no more than a 1/8" bead or less, so no product gets inside.

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pungo
Any Residual Product formed on the inside from a bead will cure the same as the exterior surface from the trapped air inside the case. As long as it is given time to cure before adding fluids. Applied to a clean surface( Acetone, Coleman Fuel,carb cleaner, Varsol),cured silicone sealant is highly resistant to the petroleum based fluids found in a trans as wells as engine compartments. The Base sealant used for these various gasketing formulations features high heat resistance, the selling point for silicone.The black( Moly) and the red(Oxide) pigments added to the base gives each formulation differing inherent qualities, as to thickness versus flowability, High heat resistance versus durability.

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