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jlasater

New snowblower install

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jlasater
The used snowblower I ordered from Sandy Lake Implements arrived today. It's a green unit for a Deutz-Allis, model 1691157 (which doesn't pull up anything on the Simplicity manual search but croses to 1690548), and I'm mounting it on my square-headlight AC 716H, model 1690211. [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/new_blower.jpg[/img] I've run in to two issues. One is the lift rod is all wrong but I will fabricate one of those without problem. [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/blower_sideview.jpg[/img] The other is I can't figure out the rear idler setup. The original idler pulley plate is lying on the ground in this picture: [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/blower_idler.jpg[/img] A picture of the one that I received from SLI installed: [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/blower_idler2.jpg[/img] My dilemma: [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/belt_routing.jpg[/img] What is pulley "B" which is a regular V-belt sheave, supposed to mount to? There's no place for it on the bracket I got from SLI that has two tabs with one at a different angle. Using UCD's picture that he's posted a number of times about belt adjustment, I don't have anything that has the red/green sticker on it like this so I assume there is another fixed bracket that I'm missing: [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/attach/UCD/SnowblowerBeltTension7100.JPG[/img]

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jlasater
I believe that is what I'm doing. I will be using the long drive belt to the mid PTO instead of the engine-pulley setup.

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Burntime
You could also bend the idler bracket pulley to split the difference and use it...or weld another ear on it to direct it to the front like the 7100 series has. Either way it works...

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crankyyankee
If you have a parts tractor you can make a lift rod from a rear lift or maybe a brake rod from older ones. I have done this before twice. Measure length , heat, bend , cut and drill hole for pin. Took about 20 minutes. Good luck.. I have same blower and it works great..

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jlasater
Is there any reason that the rear idler couldn't be added by welding a tab to the "new" idler bracket that I installed (the smaller one in the picture) so that the whole thing swings similar to the factory idler plate that my tractor originally had? That'd keep the idler plates seperate and I wouldn't be permanently modifying the tractor frame at all. Something like this: [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/idler_setup.jpg[/img] The idler bracket would be more like the one I use with the mower deck, where both idlers (flat and v-belt) are on a pivoting plate under spring tension. If so...I may be able to make the belt I have now (a new Simplicity one) work. **If any of you have a similar tractor (7100/900) set up with the blower, could you take a straight-on picture at the side of the PTO/idler setup with the belt installed just so I can see how things should be arranged accurately?** Thanks

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jlasater
What's funny is my neighbor was looking at the blower and commented on how groovy those skids would be, and couldn't figure out why I said I was going to cut them down to half their current width.

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Burntime
Jeremy, it is obvious you know how to work with metal. One point is make sure you shim the front blower hitch pulley and snowthrower pulley to get the best possible alignment. It makes a difference on performance. I used to throw snow and the engine would hardley ever grunt. With the idler set correct and everything aligned I could stall the motor on my kt-17 if I tried real hard. Good luck! Looks like it is coming together!:D

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jlasater
Burntime, your earlier comment about welding another ear on, was that referring to my stock dual-idler bracket that is lying on the floor in the picture? I.e. just weld another tab on it that points straight like the smaller bracket I got with the blower has? If that'll work, that's even easier than trying to add a slotted tab to the smaller idler bracket that I received.

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Burntime
If you just weld an ear then you have to get a belt made up. Some just split the difference and the existing tab in the middle... Robs some HP but will work. You would have to check but I think the deck belt is different from the 7100 to the 7000 series. If you add the 5 inch pulley and the tab you may cause a nightmare for belts.

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PhanDad
Jeremy, as you suggested, I think if you added an "ear" to the back of the "Sandy Lake" idler bracket you could mount the larger idler pulley on it and everything would swing as it does now. This ear would be pointed to the snowblower drive pulley.You'd locate the hole for the larger pulley such that you could use the standard 166" belt and not have the "ear" or pulley hit anything. Allow enough clearance for belt stretch. A disadvantage of this setup is the bottom "pulling" pulley is now also pivoting where the newer 7100 series design it's fixed. Might be an issue with snowblower operation. I thought the main purpose of the slotted hole for the fixed idler pulley on the 7100 series tractors is to allow for more belt adjustment compared to the 700 series. I think the pulley in the slotted hole is also pointed inward a bit for better belt alignment. But maybe power transfer also plays a part. Hopes this makes some sense. PS - I like Burntime's setup. If I read the pictures right, he added a large "ear" to the frame to mount the fixed idler pulley in a slot. However, I don't understand purpose of the the extra plate welded to the back of the swinging two ear idler assembly. When I setup a 700 series tractor to run a snowblower off the center PTO, I got a 7100 series side plate, swinging idler arm, and fixed pulley and installed them. Hardest part of the job was removing and reinstalling the cone clutch. For mowing with this setup, you have to use a deck drive belt for a 7100 series tractor.

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Burntime
Phandad, I can't take credit for it...its a 17-gthl like yours. The heads have been milled and new head gaskets, but other then that it is bone stock!:D The other piece of metal is the bracket with the green/red/green alignment markers...

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jlasater
Progress as of this evening: New lift arm being fabricated: [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/lift_arm.jpg[/img] Lift are done and installed (if I did it over again, I wouldn't put the bend in the vertical part): [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/lift_arm_finished.jpg[/img] Right-side all finished. I picked up some 9/16" round bar today and made a new lift rod. [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/blower_rightside.jpg[/img] Prototype for the idler bracket modification. My only concern is if the bend in the belt as it wraps around the front idler is too severe. [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/idler_prototype.jpg[/img] Top-down picture of the belt alignment. When I weld the bracket on, I'll just remove the equivalent thickness in washers to make it line back up again. [img]http://images.ttyr2.com/albums/Garden%20Tractors/belt_alignment.jpg[/img] So the only two questions I have at this point are: 1) Is the amount of belt bend too much on the front idler? 2) How much tension do I want to have in the idler spring? There's a gap in the winding and the belt feels pretty good but I don't know what it should be like.

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PhanDad
1) I believe you're asking about the amount of belt wrap around the pulley, which is greater than the stock setup shown in Burntime's pics. The Simplicity belts are made to take the bending, the reverse wrap on an idler pulley is much greater on a mower deck. So I'd think it would be OK. To get the front idler more vertical, why not move the fixed idler further back? I know you said you don't want to mess with the stock frame plate, but I think you'd be better off mounting the fixed idler to the frame plate. With your skills, I'm sure you could make it a "bolt on" bracket so the only change to the frame plate would be a couple of holes. I think with both idlers moving, there's more chance for the belt jumping off the pulleys. For the 7100 series setup, there's an extra belt guard that's mounted to the front idler (exact same guard as on the snowblower hitch pulley) - it's not installed in Burntime's pics. I know from experience, it makes a difference. Much less belt jumping with the PTO belt guard installed. 2) Burntime's photos show how much the spring is stretched. There are definitely gaps in the windings. Consider making the "ear" you're welding on for the fixed idler pulley a little longer toward the rear. You could either slot it or drill multiple holes to allow for belt tension adjustments like the 7100 series tractors. That would also give you the ability to adjust the spring tension.

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Burntime
You want tension on the spring. I said it earlier...with it not adjusted propperly you will slip the belt...it never works the motor. If adjusted right you could actually kill the motor with a good load... This translates into much better snowthowing. Jeremy, I would hang the bracket like mine. Copy the simplicity one as close as posible. Its designed that way to work with the stress of the belt. At least we know it works:D

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jlasater
I'll look at mounting the idler to the frame again. I don't think the spring I have on the idler is the same as Burntimes. Mine looks like it's shorter but a bit more substantial. I'll make up the missing belt guard as well. Actually I do see your point, Burntime. It's likely that the idlers will just shift when under a lot of torque, so having the rear idler fixed would keep the tension better. Although...the stock idler bracket has both idlers under spring tension and the mower deck can kill the engine on my tractor. I may just "take one for the team" and try it my way first. If it doesn't work, I can cut the tab off the idler arm, and mount it to the frame. Research and development for the collective good!

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cwm1276
Just remember my Dad has that similar setup. Blower off the Mid-PTO on a AC716. They actaully just made up a wedge to change the angle of the front idler pully on the stock 716 setup. (the wedge changes the angle from the deck to the blower on the tab instead of having 2 tabs) So both are still hinged as you are designing. He has no problem blowing snow.

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PhanDad
Carl, your Dad's installation "wedge" was a custom fabrication, correct? Or is there a part number for the "wedge"? What length belt does your Dad's setup use?

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cwm1276
Yes it was custom, 10 years ago or so now. I don't know the belt length currently. One of the local Simplicity dealers set it up for him. Just as I need to move the pulley to the other tab, for the deck, he would just need to remove the wedge. It is his dedicated tractor/snowblower, it was retired from lawn mowing service 20 years ago.

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