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RUMBLEFISH

Do I keep going???

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RUMBLEFISH
This is my first time I ever honed a cylinder. I bought a sears 3 stone hone unit I put on my drill and lubed it with oil and some kero. I run it up and down about 15 times. I think I did ok but not sure how far to go into the walls. Should I keep going to remove what you guys see below or am I good to go? I plan on putting in the new rings next week. Thanks [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/6g8nwk.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/ayvnk1.jpg[/IMG]

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HubbardRA
If it were me I would put the rings in as it is, but I do a lot of things others don't agree with. If you hone till you take out all the small scratches, you could be enlarging parts of the cylinder by another .005 to .010 and then you are getting near the point that you would need an oversize piston. Also the hone does not make a true cylinder bore when you try to remove a lot of metal. The diameter will vary as you go from top to bottom. As I said, I would put the rings in now. Others will likely disagree with me and recommend that you go to a true .020 bore and install an oversize piston. Of course there are many who would never do less than a $500 to $600 rebuild in which you put everything in the engine exactly back to factory specs. As always the choice is up to you not me.

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RUMBLEFISH
Well Rod I think your right and thats what Im going to do. I am so far into this AC Big Ten at this point I want to start putting things back together. If it runs decent that will be great. Even if she smokes a tad after a while thats ok also. Next year I could do a complete rebuild on her if she needs it. At least the rest of the tractor would be done already so just doing that would be a cake walk. I getting a little tired of grinding and sanding and painting and grinding and sanding. But in a way I really enjoy it also but it would be nice to see this thing start to look like a tractor again rather then parts all over the shop.

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PeppyDan
I did a quick hone and only new rings in my 79 Firebird several years ago and have always regreted not doing the job properly so this summer I hope to be able to pull the engine and do what I didn't do years ago! The engine ran ok but still used some oil, I had no noticable improvment in power and worst of all, it had horrable sounding piston slap (which it never had before) when the engine was cold. Keep in mind that the engine has ran for years (50,000 miles) this way and you are talking about simply a garden tractor engine that may not have the wear that my engine has, but I would want to at least know how much wear is in the cylinder before deciding which method of repair is needed. Also, if you decide to just go with what you appear to have, (though the pic may be deciving) you may want to get more of a cross-hatch pattern to help the new rings seal better. Dan

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sammiefish
+1 on cross hatch... It looks like if youre gonna re-ring and be done youre pretty much there. If you were to continue from here... it would mean getting some measurements of the top and the bottom of the cylinder and then decide if you want to take more off... which for most of us requires a machine shop. I would say its a tough call as weather or not to re-ring or bore at this point. you'll probably be happy either way... do you need this tractor to work it next week?.... hmmmm

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D-17_Dave
quote:
Originally posted by RUMBLEFISH
Do I get the cross hatching by moving the hone tool up and down faster?
Yes. I'd too like to see more cross hatch in your honing. It's not neccessary to completely remove all the old marks, but if you have a deep, wide mark that catches your finger nail then it'll make it near imposible to seat the new rings. This is the only real reason to hone the cyl. in the foirst place is to break the glaze so the new rings will seat in. To determine whether or not you need to continue, put in just the piston without rings. Measure the side play at 3 diferent heights in the cyl. Also measure this at 90 degree's at the 3 heights. Thos will tell you if you have a badly worn cyl. Next install just one compresion ring. Again measure at the 3 heights ring gap. Use the piston to push the ring down evenly. Too much ring gap will pass oil and loose massive compresion. If you decide to overbore you'll need to have a machine shop cut it true with a bore machine. A hone will wear the cyl. to the next size but still be worn odd shapped in the center.

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jlasater
Ideally: [img]http://www.productionmachining.com/uploadedimages/Publications/PM/Articles/Internal/0908sunnen-crosshatch.jpg[/img]

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xenon172
I'd say the group has it pretty much covered with good advice so I'll just add my 2 cents. I think your question would be easier to answer if .010" pistons and rings were still available. Based on the photos you're real close and if you can't feel those marks with a finger nail you would have a good chance of lucking out with new rings but no guarantee. Before you make the call have the bore properly measured especially for roundness. Until you really measure things you won't really know how much wear there already is from years of use and you might already be at the point where an oversize piston is required. You really only want to do this rebuild once

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tall-guy2
Just my two cents worth. If it were me I would get a ridge reamer and take the ridge out of the top of the cylinder. The reason for this is when the old rings wear to the cylinder they wear round on the top ring, when you put new rings in they are square on the top and can catch on that lip and brake the ring or if bad enough even brake the piston.

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sammiefish
quote:
Originally posted by jlasater
Ideally: [img]http://www.productionmachining.com/uploadedimages/Publications/PM/Articles/Internal/0908sunnen-crosshatch.jpg[/img]
GREAT PICTURE!!

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Al
Hi, Those particular lines are caused by carbon on the piston. If the lines are only a few lines, and there is smooth metal between them, they will fill with carbon, and probably already are and will not be a problem. If there are gall marks in the adjacent metal, it will be a problem. Just a couple of fine lines not a problem. Al Eden

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Willy
Advice is cheep so take it for what it's worth. But IMHO. Keep it Simple brake the glaze and put it together, you can drive yourself nuts worrying about things that may never happen. Small engine part don't come cheap so check them over and if they look good put them back in. I have done many, mostly 10 horse Eng,s with just gaskets and rings with no problems. The last overhaul cost less then $50.00. Good luck and keep it Simple.

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Robert Kehoe
Push just the rings down the bore without the piston and measure the gap between the ends of the rings. Also I was told to wash out the block with soap and water after a hone job.

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