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mroman59

7117 simpicty bevel gear box removal - help

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mroman59
few questions: 1. to replace the rubber seal on both side of the bevel gear box do you have to drop the bevel gear box from the tractor? One seal pops out easy, the other is recessed in. A mechanic at simplicity dealer told me to dig it out with a screw driver. Well i tried and now it ripped and i cant seem to get it out. 2. Do the bearings inside the bevel box remove easy or are they pressed in? If they can be removed I can get to the seal from the inside. 3. If the bevel box needs to be removed to replace those seals then how do you do this? Is this a big job? It seems like the removal of the gear box is part of the frame and cant be removed or there will be nothing holding the two end of the tractor together. Thanks, Mr

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RayS
You can remove the seals with a hook shaped object like a awl bent in to a hook shape. The bearings are not pressed in. You can replace the seals without removing the BGB from tractor but it is alot easier if you do so. The BGB is what holds the two halves together but it isn`t as bad as it looks. Remove the linkages and driveshaft. Then unbolt the four bolts holding the BGB to the frame.

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mroman59
Thanks for your advice, I tried a hook shaped tool to get out the seal but it is not working so well. Having very difficult time getting a grip on any rubber. Got little out by using a screw driver. I will try again. As for the bevel gear box removal, I counted a total of 10 bolts. Four from the back underneath the frame where the drive shaft is and six, three on each side of the gear box which mount to side plates. As far as the linkages, seems like a lot of work, but if you keep digging at that seal with a hook tool and cant get it out, you are spinning your wheels I guess. I am worried about aligning the to sections together and getting the bolts in, that seems like it could be hard also. Thanks, MR

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PhanDad
Ray, Am I missing something here? Doesn't the right side plate have to come off? The side plate holds the shims against the seal on the right side, correct? So to get the seal out and a new one in, the side plate must come off. Michael, I've only replaced seals and bearings with the BGB "on the bench", not in the tractor. If I were to just replacing the cross shaft seals, I would unbolt one side plate at a time and replace the seals. I've had success drilling two small holes in metal part of the lip seal, thread in sheet metal screws and then use the heads of the screws to pry the seal out. Issues are to not drill to far and make sure all drilled material stays "outside" so there's no metal shards inside. As Ray stated, splitting the tractor isn't that difficult. See this post for how I do it: http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=111821 After the back end is off, remove the four BGB to frame bolts and the BGB is free. Remove the input shaft yoke first. If the yoke doesn't come off the input shaft easily, use 3" long 3/8" bolts to push the yoke off the shaft. (end of bolts bottom out on the frame end)

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mroman59
Well if the side plate comes off that would make it a lot easier I think, I will go back and examine to see if that is possible. So far some people say that any work done on the BGB requires removing it, hence splitting the frame. I am not sure if it would be possible to remove the bearing on the one side that would allow removing the seal from inside instead of from the outside. I plan on going to Simplicity today for parts and see if they can give me more options. If digging out the seal with a hook type tool is possible, that may only be with a seal that is not so old. My seals are hard and non-flexible, which I dont know if thats how they get over time or that is the way they are new. I will purchase some today and see. I will get back with you about the side plate removal. Thanks, MR

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mroman59
removing the side plate is not a possibility, it is part of the rear end and would be more involved than disconnecting the linkage and splitting the tractor and popping out the seal. At this point it looks like I will have to separate the ends, unless the mechanic at Simplicity has another idea.

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PhanDad

As Ray stated, you have to remove one of the side plates to get the BGB out from between them. The seals and bearings are accessed from outside the case. There are 7 bolts holding the right side plate to the tranny and BGB, 4 bolts to the tranny and 3 bolts to the BGB. Where they are are circled in red in the following pic (3 are hidden, 1 removed that holds the drive pulley guard):

IMG_4784b.jpg.f58b9ca13cffefda068a8e31b40c748f.jpg


There are 10 bolts holding the left side plate to the tranny and BGB. IMO it's more involved to remove the left side plate from the tranny, so I take off the right side plate and leave the left plate attached to the tranny.

Edited by PhanDad
Added correct pic
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mroman59
thanks for the info. Just to understand are you saying that i can leave the tractor in one piece and i can just remove the side plate if i am just trying to replace the seals and then the remaining parts, drive shaft and gear? Or do I have to do both?

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mroman59
thanks for your help guys, I got the BGB out and now i am going to replace the pressed seal tomorrow. I have to purchase a new shaft and gear because there was to much wobble at the key. the key slots are wobbled out and the shat is worn down at that point more than the rest of the shaft. Does anyone know what could have caused this kind of wear? Or is this normal with age?

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cheken
To all: Pertinent to this topic and one that I am struggling with is the removal pulleys prior to the removal of the BGB. Specifically the left side pulley/PTO side. I have an embarrassingly amount of time and ambition available -yet I stall. My fears are compounded by the fact that the assembly looks to be spring loaded and at any minute it is going to launch. I have removed the nut to the bell exposing the keyway (stuck) and retaining clip. The assembly has advanced to the keyway. If I can get the key out, what is going to happen? I have already whacked it to the point of being unrecognizable. If I can get it apart, is it going to be possible to reassemble? Any help or previous links would be helpful and appreciated. High regards, KC

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PhanDad
cheken, Welcome to the club. You probably would have done better with a new post about your issue. Here are links to recent posts about cone clutch problems: http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=116523&SearchTerms=cone,clutch http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=116051&SearchTerms=cone,clutch A search will find even more. If memory serves, only the bell cone should come off as long as you didn't remove any of the engagement linkage - have the clutch lever in the "disengaged" position.

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Wybuck

Hi all,  First time user here and am in  need of some information concerning the removal of the BGB from my Allis 716H.  Last  early fall the BGB failed and I'm wanting ti pull it out of the tractor to see what damage has been done and to repair it. I saw this link in the conversation above ; http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=111821  When I tried to open the link I get a page can not be found error. Can anyone help me with this. I'm not a bad shade tree mechanic but I do like to have some kind of instructions to go by when attempting something like the removal of the BGB.

Also I found that user BLT? has a download for the Simplicity Large Frame Repair Manual 1.0.0 that I'm sure has the BGB removal process in it, but I can't open or down load it.

Thanks all 

Jim

Edited by Wybuck

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PhanDad
4 hours ago, Wybuck said:

When I tried to open the link I get a page can not be found error.

The club changed software a couple years ago and unfortunately links in old posts don't work anymore.

Since you usually don't know the title or author of the post, it's hard to search for it.  But if you replace the ".com" with ".net",  usually you can retrieve the old post.  So the link you reference becomes:

http://www.simpletractors.net/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=111821  

PS - Depending on the browser, sometimes you get the new site and have to manually "fix" the address in the address bar (delete the "s" from "https" and change ".com" to ".net")

Edited by PhanDad
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Wybuck

I started removal  of the BGB but ran into a snag, There is a bolt ( Forming bolt) that needs to be removed from the PTO pivot assembly  http://www.partstree.com/parts/simplicity/mowers-lawn-garden-tractor/7117h-1690571-simplicity-7117h-garden-tractor-w-turf-tires-17hp-hydro/pto-cone-clutch-group/  The bolt is labeled as part # 3 on the parts break down. I have never seen a bolt like this and have no idea what the common name for it is or what type and size of socket/wrench could be used to remove it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

IMG_3263.JPG

IMG_3264.JPG

Edited by Wybuck
Added Pictures

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fishnwiz

What is the reasoning by Simplicity to use 12 points in one or two spots on a tractor anyways?  Were  they trying to prevent home mechanics from working on these? I have seen this on large frames in nonessential areas. ?

Edited by fishnwiz

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PhanDad
16 minutes ago, fishnwiz said:

What is the reasoning by Simplicity to use 12 points in one or two spots on a tractor anyways?

Because they can.

666

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