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AC_B-1Novice

Disconnect the battery and it just dies...Pics

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AC_B-1Novice
It was running fine and the next time I started it (with my jumper battery) it wouldn’t run when I disconnected the battery. Before, I could disconnect the battery and it would continue to run. What do I need to look for and fix? Tractor is a 7012. I think it is a 1965 LL but the engine ser # says a 1977. Has a coil and points but I don’t see a generator, just a starter. larry EDIT It is a Kohler.

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RayS
quote:
Originally posted by AC_B-1Novice
It is a 7012 Land Lord 12 hp 1 cyl b&s.
[img]/club2/attach/AC_B-1Novice/4.JPG[/img]



That is a Kohler not a Briggs. It is battery ignition not a magneto, so it won`t run with the battery disconnected.

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AC_B-1Novice
RayS I swear it ran before when I took the battery cable off. I have never heard of something that ran off the battery and didn't provide a charge. Does this mean I can only use it till the battery goes dead? Not much of a mower if that is the case. larry Sorry about the wrong engine brand.

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Vassal
I'm not familiar with Kohlers or their related wiring, but in my other worlds, removing the battery from the circuit (engine running) is brutal abuse to the alternator. If it has an alternator, maybe it DID run when batt was disconnected before, but won't now because alternator was toasted.

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AC_B-1Novice
I don't see an alternator or a generator on this engine??? Here is a picture of the other side before I cleaned the solenoid wires up and put a new amp meter on.


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osenga
with them kohlers you can jump start it BUT all your wiring has to be hooked up since these motor need a complete circut to run and points need to be hot at all time the motor is running . Hope this help you out some what . But in other hand you could have a loose wire not letting it start up too.

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RayS
quote:
Originally posted by AC_B-1Novice
I don't see an alternator or a generator on this engine??? Here is a picture of the other side before I cleaned the solenoid wires up and put a new amp meter on.
[img]/club2/attach/AC_B-1Novice/0014.JPG[/img]

It has a stator under the flywheel.

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xenon172
Here is a typical Stator for a Kohler K series engine which is under the flywheel. Most of the time charging problems will be the regulator / rectifier which is external and much easier to replace. The Kohler manual details testing procedures


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Vassal
Great stator pic! So what's the consensus regarding batt disconnect while engine is running with reg/rec set up? I'm pretty sure if the charge output wire does not have some type of bypass to maintain connection to the load (engine running), the diode bridge (rectumfryer) would take a beating. EDIT: I just found proof on Wiki:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/VacRect2E.png/220px-VacRect2E.png[/img]
SEE? Aint it sad?!:D This one makes me want to dance...
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Regulated_rectifier.gif/220px-Regulated_rectifier.gif[/img]

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Vassal
Larry, If you think of a magneto ignition as a 'self generating' ignition system you will get the picture. As long as the parts are good and the crank is spun fast enough, you will get a spark. This is how your basic pull-start lawn mower (etc) type engines work. No battery, starter or charging system is needed, but you have no accessory output for extras like lights, kegerator etc.

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AC_B-1Novice
Thanks guys...you don't know how little I know about all of this. Even with all this information I don't know how to process it. Is the engine ok since it will start right up with a battery? OR could I have ruined something and if so what and where would it be and what would it look like. Thanks to a memeber I have a service manual but that is sort of like giving a math book to a 3 year old. They might be able to read it but would never figure out the problems. If someone could tell me the possible problem, if there is one, and the page in the manual showing where it is located it would be a great help. Unlike a lot of you good folks,and being 72 years old with nearly no experience with these, I don't have a lot going for me so I hope you will bear with me as I stumble through some of these things. larry

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sammiefish
I am pretty sure your Kohler K wont run with the battery cable disconnected.... Ive got the same motors and none of them do... so if it ran without the battery connected before and now it doesnt I would say you fixed it and now it is right!! as far as the charging system... Al wrote a nice article about Kohler electrics... I found it helpful and somewhat easy to understand http://simpletractors.com/service/kohler_electrics.htm

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UCD
As long as the battery has a charge to provide power to the coil it will run. The battery is discharging because there is no charging current going to the battery to charge it. This could be caused by something as simple as a broken wire or bad corroded connections, or high resistance in the wires caused by corrosion. It could also be caused by a bad regulator not switching current to the battery to keep it charged or a bad Stator or generator not providing a charging current to the regulator

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Brettw
One last item and then I'll shut up:
quote:
It was running fine and the next time I started it (with my jumper battery) it wouldn't run when I disconnected the battery.
Ummm, then don't disconnect the battery. Similar to: "It hurts when I hit my thumb with a hammer." Well then, don't do that. I'm just sayin'.............:o)

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