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jimcanoe

engine loses power

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jimcanoe
Kohler 16H Allis 416H. Recently replaced head, points, coil, plug,etc. Engine starts fine and runs well for about 10 minutes. After warming up, when the PTO is engaged there is a major loss of power and the engine makes a chirping, screeching??? sound. Suggestions?

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sammiefish
is the front pto belt on and connected to the deck or blower? If so, how are the pulleys on the mule drive? are they seized? have you tried to engage the pto without the front belt connected? before the engine is warmed up (10 min) does it make the noise when you engage the pto (electric clutch)? after the 10 minute warm up does it make the noise if you turn the pto (electric clutch) off?

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Bailey
I'm with Chris on this one ..... Put a heavy load on the tractor w/o the clutch and I don't expect you'll see any issue. I think a failing clutch will also account for a power loss, as it may draw too much voltage away from the ignition system .....

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jimcanoe
Pulleys seem fine. I engage the mowing deck and it mowed fine for the est. 10 minutes. After a few rounds of mowing, the noise starts and power is lost very rapidly . If I flip the switch in time to disengage the PTO, the tractor doesn't die. The noise dissipates, but I pulled in garage and shut it down in case some damage was going to come to it.

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DMedal
given the season, I'm going to assume your PTO is driving a mower deck. A failing/failed arbor shaft bearing will do this, too. Check them for slop, ideally without the deck belt on. spin the blade (right after the engine is off, following a problem) and you may find a noisy arbor.

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rsnik
Jim, This all started with the spark plug blowing and you replacing the head as well as the points, condenser and coil. I suggest you buy, borrow or steal a compression tester and check the compression. You check compression after the engine is warmed up for the official results but you might try testing when the engine is cold as well to compare. It is easy to do. The compression should be 90 pounds or more for the engine to run well. If it is low there may be an issue with how you installed the new head or whether the new head and new head gasket are the right ones. The head gasket may be leaking, in short. If that is not it I would remove the belt from the front, electric pulley completely and run the engine to remove any issues with belts or the deck. Warm the engine up for 10 minutes and see if it chirps. If that's not it you recently replaced the points, condenser and coil. I'm a Briggs guy, but I understand if you replace the coil, it has to be with a nonresistor? (can a Kohler guy help me out here?) coil. If you got the wrong coil the engine will not run right. Problems can happen after replacing the points and condenser. A good way to check for problems is to remove the points cover and start the tractor at night and then turn all lights out so it is completely dark. Have someone turn the lights out or use a flashlight to work safe, but turn off all lights so it is dark and look to see if there is any sparking around the points. If you see sparking this indicates a problem with the condenser, the points, the screws (stripped) attaching the points or the points plunger.

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jimcanoe
I got the coil at Checker. I don't know if it is correct. Should I be getting the one with the Allis parts number? Last night I ran it again, with similar results (after warmup it loses power). I did find that without the PTO engaged it still lost power after being warmed up. I tightened the cylinder head bolts. Perhaps should get a torque wrench. The head and gasket are new. Should there have been anything applied to the gasket before installing?

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DMedal
often you can feel a cyl head leak with your finger. or using a feather. Puff puff. (low rpm is fine for this) Run it rich (choked) for a bit. look for puffs, or black spots. WHY was the head replaced? is the replacement new? (possible warped head if used, possible leak on the bottom side of the gasket if the old head was replaced for being burnt) hang in there!

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DMedal
quote:
Originally posted by MPH Jonathon, but it don't get DARK in my yard.:D
. Sure it does, Marty. You're just too wimpy to work on tractors outside that time of year. LOL

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jimcanoe
Sorry I'm out of town......The pulleys are fine and not seized....noise does not start until the engine is warm, even with pto engaged and mower deck running fine.....and yes with the pto off after warm up, the noise and loss off power happens Thanks Jim

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jimcanoe
to answer Dmetal question..........The head was replaced when the plug blew out of the old head. I tried helcoil and it blew the threads again and so I replaced the head Brand new head and gaskert was put on then Thanks

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mike_sdak
Re: compression checking on a Kohler K341 --- You will want to follow the procedure in the Kohler service manual (freely available for downloading). The automatic compression release mechanism needs to be dealt with when checking compression on these engines or the compression will read low.

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olf20
Was the new head gasket the newer style graphite oil?? If so these need to be tighten in increments. Some people tighten to 1/2 of the recommended torque first, then to the final torque. These engines had some problems with head warping which is complicated by the graphite oil gasket. I sometimes take a fine file and gently slide across the bottom of the head to identify a low spot. Hope you get it going!! olf20 / Bob

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rsnik
I agree will Al. Not in this post, but in a recent post about electric clutches someone posted an archived link which showed a pic posted by Dutch of an original front clutch on a 400 series. My immediate thought was that that big old clutch sure looks like a candidate for a seized problem 45 years later.

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mike_sdak
Funny, But I believe I have the same thing on a 140 JD (electric clutch, 14 hp kohler, etc). It was squeaking intermittently when mowing, recently, and now it acts like it is bogged down and loses power when mowing. The elec. clutch sounds like a good thing to check.

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