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colincox1

Repowering a 7117, One Solution

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colincox1
Firstly, I currently live in the UK, and it is my intention to move to our new house in Ohio, when I was in Ohio April 2010 I purchased a Simplicity 7117 with a 48 inch deck, a Snow Blower and a full simplicity cab, winter use with full cover, and summer use with just the sun shade. It also had a quite noisy and a bit smokey KolherKT 17. The history of the tractor indicated that it had not been used very hard. Anyway I decided to repower. I was due to be back in Ohio in October so I had to do all my research and preparation between April and October., and then order and fit while I was there. So out with the old


I contacted the forum, [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=113590&SearchTerms=repower[/url] and I have to say what a great help to get all the opinions and advice. As I had to do this or relatively quickly, i.e. I couldn't wait around for a second-hand, pre used, engine, I decided that the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard 18 hp was the way to go: very reliable, very robust, much lighter, (it feels like I have power steering on the 7117 now! As predicted by Jim at Jim¡¦s Repair) Three companies could help with this, Edens, Small Engine Repair Warehouse, and Jim's Repair Jim's Tractors. Good reviews from Elden, but quite expensive. Too many not very good reviews from small engine repair house, and no oil filter! but cheaper. So I took a stab for Jim's repair, has demonstrated a good number of repower projects on his website. Includes rewiring for simplicity, just two wires to connect, a universal joint, with grease nipple, for connecting engine to gearbox (this does mean the engine sits a little forward and the standard muffler will fowl the hood), an oil filter, new choke cable, and new accelerator cable with a reasonable price. So I telephoned Jim, ordered the engine. Two days a later I received a telephone call, from UPS saying that they had my engine but could not deliver it to my house as the road was closed, on the phone they agreed to deliver it to where I asked outside the Chase bank in the middle of town, what's a service! So how did it all go? Very limited access to tools, which was my fault but as I said we are in the process of moving from the UK over to Ohio and all of the tools that I needed were back in the UK!! I have heard horror stories. Right at the start remove the key and put it with the oil that you have ready to put in the engine, and then you won¡¦t forget to put oil in before you start it!! Do not say I did not warn you! KT 17 came out within about an hour. Which included taking a few photographs just in case I needed to refer back to wiring etc.. Some important things to take into consideration need to make sure that wiring is fully understood, that the position of the engine is aligned correctly in the tractor frame both front to back and left to right and that the crankshaft is running at the same height as the old crankshaft. Fuel lines, choke, and accelerator cables routes, also need consideration, as does the universal connecting joint installation. The wiring was no problem as I had very clear instructions from Jim, take the wire on the tractor which goes to the ignition coil on the KT 17, which is black, to the one labelled ignition on the Vanguard, which happens to be white. Then take the white (or very faded yellow) wire up on the tractor and connect it to the red wire, voltage regulator on the Vanguard. Easy Peasy.


The universal joint is keyed and grub screwed to the Engine¡¦s crankshaft, very straightforward. The connection to the existing gearbox shaft has a grub screw only, and it is a circular shaft so I did not think that this would deal with the torque. Three approaches could be taken, weld, drill and spring roll pin, or as I did, create a flat spot with an angle grinder on the gearbox shaft some Loctite 641 bearing fit (I had to use thick thread fit as I could not get any in USA in timeframe) and tighten the grub screw to the flat. (This worked great, I have put about 8 hours of work on it and it is holding well)


The crankshaft height was a one-inch less on the Vanguard so therefore I needed to raise the engine up by 1 inch, I improvised. as apparently Jim had not included a shim At this point, I needed to cut the frame on the left hand side to accommodate the oil filter, remember to check that you have enough room to unscrew and remove the filter.


Ensuring that the engine is correctly aligned, beware, what I did to start off with, was to align it according my eye, I always think I'm pretty good. Making sure that I had the universal joint correctly positioned front to back and I also had left to right positioning taken into account. (Using tape measures and lengths of stiff wire I then used a plum bob on the crankshaft to see if it was on center line of the tractor frame, by using the bolt which is pivot point of the front axle as the reference. IT WAS NOT correct about 5/16¡¨ out So do not us this bolt. The front to back was absolutely fine, but the pivot bolt not in the center!!. I thought that was somewhat odd then I had a look at the front axle and I noticed that the angles of the bends at the end on the beam were at slightly different angles necessitating a non central position of the pivot. (This could be unique to my tractor who knows?). So I just did it by eye again and then slightly repositioned it using tape measure etc to ensure the crank shaft (therefore the engine) was parallel with the engine frame. I think this shows what I am taking about (it is clearer using the old engine)


After that, it was easy; I had to drill some holes in the frame for the four mounting bolts. Fit the std muffler, and make a couple of cuts on the hood to accommodate. Or if you have more time and tools that I had modify the muffler a little. Fit the Choke and Accelerator cables all correct fittings, so a simple job. Then connected the fuel line, with fuel filter. Connect the two electric wires Get the oil, and in it goes, then put the key in!! Then I was ready to see this baby run, into neutral, little accelerator, choke on and turn the key and............................................ she just fired up just fine.:D See the proof vid on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdlWKMoxj1c Adjust the cables setting for choke and accelerator. Tidied up all the wiring, used cable guard and cable ties. Then time for a spin around the place.




She fired up just great, reversed out of the workshop, and went about 100ft, and she just died and stopped.:(8C Heart sank. Ah Ah I must have forgotten to switch on the fuel tap, no that is on!! I am not going to draw this out, it turned out to be intermittent but It took me about two hours to find and fix the problem.:D The ammeter had a bad connection; if that is the case then the engine will not turn over, so as a matter of caution worth checking. Conclusions, How long did it take about 5 hrs, (not counting the diagnosis of bad connection to ammeter) 1 hour to remove the old engine, 1 hour to plan and prepare the position of new engine in frame, 2 hrs to execute the plan, 1hr tidying up with cable protection and cable ties etc. The engine, very light, much better on gas, plenty of power, apparently they run 2-4hp more than their specification. If you have the money this was a great repower if you don¡¦t you could wait for an engine and solve the gearbox/crankshaft connection maybe Jim¡¦s repair would sell the universal joint separately. Take a look at my original Repowering a 7117 thread, some very useful insight in making your decision. http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=113590&SearchTerms=repower Thanks to all the members of Simple Tractors forums who contributed and help with enthusiasm. Thanks to Jim¡¦s Repairs, Thanks to anyone, I have forgotten in my excitement of breathing new life into a Simplicity 7117. Finally, I hope that is will be helpful to someone out there. Remember if we ONLY ask questions and take information out, this site it will not work too well, we all have to put something back, here is my first major give back. I hope this encourages someone else to make the effort too, it feels good as well, go on try it whatever it is it will help someone. Apologies re spelling or grammar etc I have tried to make this international;) I even remembered some of the UK English and USA English spellings differences. Best regards Colin


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JohnMBerst
Great job Colin! This type of information helps all who read daily and use this web site as a reference. Hope you have a safe move to the states, and enjoy some seat time.

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RayS
Very nice work! Where did you have to cut the hood at? I hope your universal doesn`t end up spining on the drive shaft if it isn`t keyed. I have been wanting to do a twin up grade for a few years, but think I may go with a Kohler Command.

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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
Very nice work! Where did you have to cut the hood at? I hope your universal doesn`t end up spining on the drive shaft if it isn`t keyed. I have been wanting to do a twin up grade for a few years, but think I may go with a Kohler Command.
Firstly cannot get you a photo, tractor is about 4250 miles away!! This may help, removed the headlights, cut with hacksaw down through each head light hole to the large grill hole, the cuts are about an inch long, then bent the middle flap up a bit and the muffler now fits, but the headlights don't. The hood can be very easily returned to original if need be. I am quite confident on the universal, have done similar before on racing cars, I always have the role pin and welding as a followup solution!! ;) I am just a lit negative about the Kolhers, just a feeling. Thanks for your comments

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Ronald Hribar
I am very glad you tried Jims. Could would you tell us how much the kit excluding the engine was? I have asked Jim for prices on some of the components and felt they were very high. For the problem of cutting the frame. Jim also offers a oil filter relocation kit that allow you to put oil filter wherever you want.

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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Hribar
I am very glad you tried Jims. Could would you tell us how much the kit excluding the engine was? I have asked Jim for prices on some of the components and felt they were very high. For the problem of cutting the frame. Jim also offers a oil filter relocation kit that allow you to put oil filter wherever you want.
I tried to send you a personal email, and it failed !! so a somewhat diluted reply here. The oil filter remote kit was quoted at $350, crazy, my specific deal is private I am sorry. but it is not cheap, but it worked, and i felt that i would be able to get the support i needed, which i did.

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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by ardisam
What are you going to do with the KT17?
ardisam Hi, I am looking to sell, for a good but fair price, I am looking to put on craigs and or ebay, it runs, with smoke, I have a video of it running just prior to the repower, I can put the video on you tube. I know that in parts it is worth good money, so if you would like it please make me a realistic offer. Please contact me privately.

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goatfarmer
Nice job!dOd
quote:
The history of the tractor indicated that it had not been used very hard. Anyway I decided to repower.
I wonder what caused the engine to go south, in a lightly used tractor. I'm also curious, the Kohler looks to use the fibre disc type of driveshaft connector that Simplicity has used over the years. No way to adapt that to the Vanguard?

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Brettw
I just completed something similar. Looks great, and it sure is rewarding. Only "problem" is, you are now good to go, and other than regular upkeep, the putzing around fix it time is greatly reduced. Kinda steals some of the fun out of the play time. :)

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larry8200
Great Job! I've been looking at replacing the noisy and smokey (but great running) K301 in my 7112H with a new vangaurd twin. Nice to see it done.

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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Hribar
I believe the only option is a one inch stub shaft (optional)
I think this answers the connect from vanguard to 7117 there is a stub added.


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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by goatfarmer
Nice job!dOd
quote:
The history of the tractor indicated that it had not been used very hard. Anyway I decided to repower.
I wonder what caused the engine to go south, in a lightly used tractor. I'm also curious, the Kohler looks to use the fibre disc type of driveshaft connector that Simplicity has used over the years. No way to adapt that to the Vanguard?
Thank you for your comments and questions, I have answered someone else regarding the connection question you have and there is a picture which I think explains it. Now the Engine I agree that is a good question, I bought the tractor from a somewhat distant family member who is an honest and trustworthy person, we are a close family and we will be interacting almost on a weekly basis so I pretty much go along with what he said. (Call me old-fashioned blah blah blah) The tractor had been owned by an older gentleman who had a smaller garden with some steep banks. So it could have been something to do with oil pickup, that was my deduction. It was bought by the family member to use full snow blowing which he did a good job, one other thing which was said that the gas tap had been left on a number of times I don't know if it's possible but it could have had gasoline contaminated sump oil. Again I do not know the probability likelihood or even if this is possible. Sometimes you just have to go with it, and I did. I would be happy with anybody's comments on this to see whether I have been anywhere close to what could've happened to the engine. The engine I think I explained smokes some and is noisy, it is more of a rattle than a knock, and seems on one side, my best bet on this would be a small end bearing (that is the name in England) it is the bearing that goes between the connecting rod and the piston, and given the smoke I would guess that the rings need replacing, not valve guides. As I said would be very open to comments Does anybody know what they think that this engine might be worth? Whole not parted out. It seems that it could be quite a considerable see and hear it running here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLgWZJ5pN7s Best regards Colin

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goatfarmer
Thanks, Colin, I see that makes sense. What does the other side of the Vanguard look like? Does it have the screen that covers the flywheel? It would have taken turning the engine around 180 degrees, but I'm thinking that's where the flexable coupling from Simplicity would have bolted to. Either way, fantastic job!

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colincox1
quote:
Originally posted by goatfarmer
Thanks, Colin, I see that makes sense. What does the other side of the Vanguard look like? Does it have the screen that covers the flywheel? It would have taken turning the engine around 180 degrees, but I'm thinking that's where the flexable coupling from Simplicity would have bolted to. Either way, fantastic job!
The other side of the engine, has a shaft about the same length so if I wanted to I could run an electric clutch, or just a pully as a PTO this is located at he front of the tractor, just behind the hood. I am just thinking out load, but if the engine was turned around, it would be spinning the wring way. Yes? Colin

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Ronald Hribar
That is correct. Some Simplicityslike your 7016 used the front shaft to drive the snowblower. They had a mechanical clutch to drive snow blower. And a electric clutch could be fitted to the front of your motor. But as you moved motor forward, it may not be in correct position to do so. And the preferred way is the center PTO You are also correct in that if you turned motor around it would be turning the wrong way.

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Ronald Hribar
Yes it is possible to contaminate the sump with gasoline. It is poosible that your Kohler is in great shape once it has all the gas flushed out of system. And the breather checked. Someone may buy your engine for $200 and with mi nor repair have a wonderful motor

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hotrodtractor
very nice write up. Could you show a up close picture of the wire side of the engine. I can't tell where both ends of the red wire on the engine go. The red has a connector that looks like it want to go together but assume one will need to go to the tractor. Also from what i can make out it looks like the white wire on the engine is connected to the spade terminal aka ignition. 1) The battery positive cable needs to go to the starter solenoid. Then there is a ¼” spade terminal on the solenoid, when that terminal gets 12 V the starter will crank. (that's the white wire in the write up above) 2) There is a carburetor fuel shut off solenoid, this wire needs 12V to when the key switch is in the on position. Is this the other part of my red wire going into the engine which has black shrink tube on it (just a little red showing in pic? 3) In order to shut the engine off the stud coming out of the engine near the starter motor needs to be grounded. Is that the nut next to the yellow wires in my picture? 4) There is a red wire coming out of the regulator. This is the 12V charging and should go to the battery positive terminal. This is my issue there are two ends one goes into engine other to regulator. So where do I terminate each end 12V???

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hotrodtractor
I know I can tap into the factory plug/wires but to not be model specific (using the oem wire harness colors) My wire guess would be as follows. Correct me if I am wrong 1. Take spade and run to key switch that has 12v in start position 2. The other red wire with black shrink tube and white connector should go to 12V to when the key switch is in the on position- assuming it's the carburetor fuel shut off solenoid. 3. Ground bolt to chasis - 4. take red wire with the red connector run that to the battery +.

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colincox1
Reply to HotRodTractor, Thanks for comments, I am sorry I cannot provide anymore photos until April; Tractor in USA snow blowing, and I am in UK, trying to avoid snow, and we got a foot (which is very rare !!!) I understand that Jim's Repair Jim's Tractors added wiring to deal with the issues of a voltage regulated charging system on the tractor AND the new B&S engine, Eden sells a wiring kit that sorts this out, you may be able get the information quicker that way. good luck Colin

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