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mbsengineer

712H snowblower suggestions please

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mbsengineer
So I'm in central NJ where we've been hit hard this year already. My blower has gotten a lot more use this year then in many past years combined. This has led me to notice an issue. When trying to blow heavy snow, it will bog down very easily. First off ... here's my setup... 712H 36" single stage (actually it's off another model tractor, so I had to adapt it) I use the center PTO 5" blower pulley (orig. for the blower I have) I always run the throttle wide open We got 20+ inches a few weeks ago, and I had no problems blowing that, so I know it can handle PLENTY of the light stuff. But we had about 15" a couple days ago, and there were several places where it struggled. I had to get off and break it up, and even then it was dicey keeping it from plugging up. I even "lubed" everything down really well before I started, and twice during blowing, with WD40, so I know hardly any snow was sticking inside the blower and chute. From what I was seeing, it seems like there were 3 issues, and I'm hoping I can get a few suggestions to fix them ... (1) When the snow was higher than the actual auger size, the top section of the blower (where there is no auger) pushes the snow and packs it. Then it gets to the point it's packed so much you can't move forward. Is there anything that can be done to correct this? (2) I'm wondering if you can add (or cut in) teeth to the paddles/auger to help break up the snow a little as this seems like it might help it eject without getting clumped together and sticking. Has anyone tried this with or without success? (3) Obviously ejection speed and power is a big part of this. I'm wondering if a 7" blower pulley would help? I know this would slow down my auger, but it would add power. I'd like to hear a little feedback from those who have tried both sizes, and how they function in light and heavy snow. I've also thought of attempting to find a 2 stage blower that I could adapt to my tractor. Since this would add a ton of ejection power, I assume it would fix at least #2 and #3 above. I don't think any were made orig. for these tractors, but I'm sure people on here have adapted others. =) Are there any makes/models that people find easy to adapt? I'd love to go bigger too ... at least 42". I'm getting tired of not being able to turn, AT ALL, while blowing. And since I have the hydro trans., controlling the intake speed isn't an issue. Thanks for any help and suggestions!

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mbsengineer
Oh, I forgot to mention that I saw a thread on here about aftermarket add on rubber paddles that are supposed to help throwing distance. However, I see they get mixed reviews, and I'm sure they would only help with #3 above anyway ... if they helped at all. If someone thinks they would really help me for my situation, I guess I could try them, but to me, it seems my money would be better spent doing something else. I maninly just wanted to mention that I did see these mentioned. I do try to do a little home-work first. =) Thanks again for any help.

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rokon2813
If its that wet that your blower is packing it instead of it falling into the auger there is probably not much you can do about it. And if by bog down, you mean it is actually lugging down your engine rpm, then your just feeding it too fast. Slowing down your auger speed will probably not help at all, it will definitely shorten your throwing distance and likely pack and plug your chute quicker. That said, the first pass is always the hardest, after that you need to take less and less width till the blower can handle it. There are "drift cutters" you can put on to help knock down the high stuff, but they knock down the top of the next pass, not the one you are working. My opinions, take them for what they are worth. :D

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D-17_Dave
I know I'm far south of you and have very little blower experiance. But you have done a great job of descibing your problems so I'll take a stab at it. Sounds like first off your just running out of power. The Kohler in your tractor is a smooth running engine but In my experiance they barely had the 12 HP rating they advertize. I think your well underpowered for the load your applying. If you increase the pulley size to gain speed you'll use more HP. If you drop pulley size you'll loose impeller speed and distance. The 42" blower might have more angle on the housing and maybe a larger impeller to help out with the deeper snow. But I'm not sure of this. Just a guess.

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Burntime
Put the 7 inch pulley on and give it a try. I have a 17hp kt and when I put a 36 inch blower it would not bog one bit. I hit the governer all the time with the 42 inch. I have used blowers with the 5 inch pulley and never knew it... That being said, it makes sense it is taking hp. Any chance your not in proper alignment with the belt or the pulley tab? If you have wear on one side of the belt it will be obvious and it makes a difference. Also, I had a blower that was basically digging in by the sprocket. I pulled it appart and shimmed it with a washer if I remember right so it was not bouncing left to right and the problem was solved. Its either hp, alignment, belt tension, or bearings on blower or idler pulleys. Or a combination of these. Take them one by one and you will find it. I had an idler pulley that had a spot that would basically all but lock up under load. Without a load it spun free. There can be odd things like that. Any chance the tractor needs a carb adjustment or it not governed to top speed? Just another random thought... Good luck!

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HubbardRA
It sounds to me like your forward speed is too fast for the wet snow. If it is packing above the auger, then you need to stop and back up to let the upper sheet of snow drop downward so the auger can pick it up. The first pass is always the most difficult. Once you get through that, then you can control the amount of snow being picked up by the width of cut that you take.

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BLT
Even with two stage snowblowers, you'll have a problem throwing snow with high moisture contenr. I have an 8HP two stage and with wet snow I'll be lucky to chuck it more then 4 ft if I'm crowding it.

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mike_sdak
Last winter, I ran a 36" blower on the mid-pto of my 917H. The blower was apparently adapted from a 300 series, for what it's worth. I had a few plugging problems (only in March with really wet snowball snow). I did have problems when the drifts were deep, too. I jumped off and pre-shoveled. I didn't have any extra weight on the back, just 2-link chains. I think weight would have fixed the problem with stopping in hard drifts. However, I too, questioned the top 4" or so of the blower housing being almost a vertical face. A few thoughts for you: 1. Are you running at 3600 rpm, when at WOT? Just making sure. 2. Do you have any traction issues? Weight and chains? I wonder if it would be possible to modify or supplement the top portion of the blower housing? Maybe some kind of an angled "cutting edge" to re-direct the snow downward into the blower?

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Brettw
I was using a 42" blower on my 7112H. The Kohler was completely rebuilt, so it certainly seemed to have all 12 horses available. It had some issues when it got fully warmed up, but that is a different story, and Ryan now has the Kohler and seems to have corrected that. Anyway, the 12 horse did just fine with the 42" blower. Yes the wet stuff didn't throw as far. But I don't recall ever clogging the chute, and keeping the ground speed appropriate, and taking the proper "bite" made a world of difference. I am sure that making a first pass with snow so deep that I was "plowing" it with the top of the blower would have been tough. Again the hydro allows me to adjust speed to a crawl if necessary. I now run the 42" on a 7718H and couldn't be more thrilled. It handles anything I throw at it. Both of these setups were being run off of the front crankshaft, with a 5" drive pulley. I should think the 712, 12 horse should be more than sufficient to run the 36" blower, especially when combined with the hydro, IF the engine is running properly and putting out the actual 12 horses. Just MHO, from experience.

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kenmill1958
I seem to be having the same problems. Tractor is a 917 Allis reengined w/a M18 Kohler. I get this last spring and replaced the original Kt with this.Runs great. Picked up a 42in blower. Repainted the chute. Blower housing is quite rusty. Surface rust. Used it last winter in conjunction with my pick up. I have since sold the pick up. This winter I am relying on Allis and a Cub with a plow, and a couple of walk behinds. Driveway is almost 100 ft long with a parking area on bottom. I made 2 passes with Tuesdays storm. Then as I was just about to the top of the drive the blower stopped. I cleared it but it did not help. I replaced the belt and adjusted the tension. Hopefully this will help. I am thinking the snow was too heavy or the snow stuck to the blower housing. Any help appreciated. Thanks Ken

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mendon-chalmers
With wet snow like that take 1/2 width passes (around 16"-18" pass) keep driving fast & it will send it thru whats going on is with this method is the wet snow has enough space to move with out packing first. Done this about 8 years ago B112 & 42" blower 8" of wet snow on Christmas morning 8 elderly widows + myself to blow out , first passes was a bear but after I learned to take less width it went great, more horse will help.

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mbsengineer
Thanks to all of you who posted comments and suggestions! A couple follow-up details to help answer some questions people asked... >if by bog down, you mean it is actually lugging down your engine rpm, then your just feeding it too fast< No, the engine doesn't die. It obviously lowers the RPMs as it starts to plug, and then (at some point) the belt just slips on the PTO pulley. In fact, once this happnens, it can be hard to know if the blower is actually plugged up as the engine regains its RPMs and sounds fine. >It sounds to me like your forward speed is too fast for the wet snow< This is def. not the issue. Since I have the hydro, I can slow to a crawl ... and I did. But the snow would still pack (if too deep for the auger) or clog up in the auger/chute. >then you need to stop and back up to let the upper sheet of snow drop downward so the auger can pick it up.< the problem is, once it packs, even if you back up, it just sticks there and won't fall. that's when I had to get off and break it up with a shovel. :( >The first pass is always the most difficult.< TRUE! I did learn to only take a partial pass after the first to avoid these issues. As most people have guessed, this is mainly for the first pass. >Are you running at 3600 rpm, when at WOT?< I actually have no idea. Is there an easy way I can measure this? >Do you have any traction issues? Weight and chains?< Normally no traction issues. I have chains and wheel weights. But when this stuff packed, I was spinning my wheels on the sidewalk trying to move forward! >IF the engine is running properly and putting out the actual 12 horses< The engine seems to run well. I have no idea exactly how many HPs it's putting out. I guess my big question is that I see some people who live close to me use self-propelled small 2 stage (and even single stage) blowers with less HP then I have, and they don't plug up. That's why I believe I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps I could try to increase my belt tension first and see if that helps. At least it might kill my engine when it plugs so I no longer have to wonder if it did. =)

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RayS
>Are you running at 3600 rpm, when at WOT?< I actually have no idea. Is there an easy way I can measure this? http://home.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=tiny+tach&_sacat=159912&_sop=10&_odkw=%28allis%2C+simplicity%29&_osacat=159912&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 http://home.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=sendec+tach&_sacat=159912&_sop=10&_odkw=tiny+tach&_osacat=159912&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 http://home.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=vibra+tach&_sacat=159912&_sop=10&_odkw=sendec+tach&_osacat=159912&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

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427435
First, your belt must be too loose. You should be able to kill the 12 hp engine before it slips. I can kill either my 917 (with a 20 hp re-power) or my 7790 diesel before the belt slips. That could be a big part of your problem. Once you have the belt tight, you may have to lift the blower off the ground and move ahead 3-5 ft and then back up and lower to the ground. This should only be necessary in really deep, wet snow and during the first pass. After that, take a 1/2 pass and the top snow will probably fall over into the previous pass area in front of the "empty" side of the blower.

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toomanytractors
Have you tried raising the blower 4-6" to make the first pass or where the snow is higher than the blower housing? I got into a deep snow years ago with a 9 horse B-10 and a 3 belt blower and it worked great. When I made the second pass with the blower all the way down the snow was almost to the top of my shoulder while sitting on the seat.

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Willy
If you have to much angle on your chute this can restrict the wet snow. Try less angle and slow down,and as was said already if the snow is above the auger lift it up some. I have a spot where the snow drifts real bad I just put my B-10 in low gear and keep bumping it until I get a hole broken through then I go with half a bite. Good Luck These old gals take some getting use to.:D

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steve-wis
Mark is right. I blew out a 5 foot tall drift in the neighbors driveway a while back. If the snow is above the auger, lift the blower and blow a few feet. Then back up, drop the blower, and clean up that few feet. Repeat till you get thru. Really wet snow is just a hard thing to blow. I had a 12 hp 30 inch walk behind blower many years ago. In really wet snow, I had to play it thru to blow without plugging. My tractor is 11 hp Allis 810GT. I can easily kill the engine before any belt slippage. Have a good belt (read that a simplicity belt, not a cheap one), adjusted properly. Hope this helps. Steve

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kenmill1958
So I take it the belt is quite tight. I checked the adjustment and made corrections. I think the PO had a weak spring in place which broke anyway. Any idea how tight the belt is when tensioner is set and belt adjusted ??

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ka9bxg
I have had the same problem with my 7116, I know what you are talking about on the top of the blower.I have had the same problem and don't know what to do about it. When going through 3 foot drifts nothing worked but to back up and break it up. I tightened up the belt and it helped some but what I did do was put a cover over the belt on the snow blower so snow does not fall on the belt and cause the belt to slip from the water on it.The way I did fix my problem was I got a allis 720 with blower has helped a lot but need smaller tires for it.Bob

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427435
quote:
Originally posted by kenmill1958
So I take it the belt is quite tight. I checked the adjustment and made corrections. I think the PO had a weak spring in place which broke anyway. Any idea how tight the belt is when tensioner is set and belt adjusted ??
If you replaced the spring with a genuine repair part, Then adjust the fixed idler until the back of the bracket (that the spring goes to) is on the front edge of the green decal that should be just behind the bracket. You will probably need to clean some dirt and grease off the frame to find the decal. When it's adjusted correctly, it will take a fairly good tug to set the spring lever over center. Another way of testing is to see if you can kill your motor. If you can't, it's still too loose. However, if you get it overly tight, it's not good for the bearings involved.

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mbsengineer
Thanks again to those of you who posted! So it seems my main problem is the belt. I'll take a look at that when I have time to see if I can put on a shorter one, or if mine is just stretched out. Since this is a custom application (using the mid-PTO), I remember I had to try like 5 or 6 belts to find one that was the "correct" length. As I'm sure you are aware, when dealing with belts this long, there's not a huge selection of lengths to choose from, so getting one that exactly "correct" may not be possible. If I can't find a shorter belt that will fit around all the pulleys, would it be okay for me to replace the tension spring with a more heavy duty one that would hold the belt tighter? If so, does anyone know where I could find such a spring, and what the specs should be? (I'm not sure how spring tension is measured, nor do I know what the tension spec is for the OEM spring I'm using now) With regard to the 3 brands of tachs referenced by Ray above, I assume they would they all come with directions on how to install them? Is one brand/model a better choice or more durable? It looks like one of them has a non-replaceable battery, is that the way most of these work? ... kinda stinks to spend $50 on something that you know will die in a few years Thanks again!

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mbsengineer
quote:
Have you used up all the adjustment in the bottom "fixed" pulley?
I assume you're talking about the pulley on the hinged bracket below the center PTO? I don't think either of the pulleys on that bracket can be moved. I think there is only one mounting location for each. I can double-check though.

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427435
quote:
Originally posted by mbsengineer
quote:
Have you used up all the adjustment in the bottom "fixed" pulley?
I assume you're talking about the pulley on the hinged bracket below the center PTO? I don't think either of the pulleys on that bracket can be moved. I think there is only one mounting location for each. I can double-check though.
No, I'm talking about the one below and to the rear of the pulley on the hinged bracket. That pulley is in a slotted hole and can be moved rearward to increase belt tension. Of course, you have to release the spring tension before adjusting this pulley.

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RayS
quote:
Originally posted by 427435
quote:
Originally posted by mbsengineer
quote:
Have you used up all the adjustment in the bottom "fixed" pulley?
I assume you're talking about the pulley on the hinged bracket below the center PTO? I don't think either of the pulleys on that bracket can be moved. I think there is only one mounting location for each. I can double-check though.
No, I'm talking about the one below and to the rear of the pulley on the hinged bracket. That pulley is in a slotted hole and can be moved rearward to increase belt tension. Of course, you have to release the spring tension before adjusting this pulley.
The tractor he is mounting this on doesn`t have the slotted bracket that you are describing. His tractor is a 712. That slotted bracket is on a 900 - 7100 series tractor. As is the decal. I have done this in the past but I switched side plates so that I had the slotted bracket. Others have done it other ways.

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