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mroman59

6216 engine/carburetor problems????

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mroman59
On my Simplicity 6216, I can start it up fairly easy when it is cold. However, if I drive it long enough, until the engine gets hot and shut it down and then try to start it up again it wont start. I have to let it cool down for quite awhile before it will start again. I have been able to get it to start again by spraying a little starting fluid in the cylinder, even though I know I am not supposed to do that. Hey I was under time constraints! Is this call vapor lock and what can I do? Thanks, MR

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mroman59
Sorry for lack of clarification. I do not know if I have the problem in the winter. This was occurring during the cutting season. Something I was reading in the other forum topic trigged my memory about the problem and I thought I better ask before cutting season roles around again. I am thinking of selling it and would like to get it ready for sale. Plugs looked in good shape when I checked.

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mroman59
Mel My engine does not stop once you get it started. It wont start back up only when you shut it down after it gets warmed up (lets say when the neighbor sees you cutting grass and comes over to talk to you), then after talking for a short time I try to start it up and it wont. Yes, that really happened last summer. If I start it up cold and shut it down right away and try to start it up again it will start up. Seems that it has to be warmed up some before acting up. So I am not sure we are talking about the same situation, correct me if I am wrong. The coils have never been replaced so I guess it would not hurt to try that.

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JeffNemes
Sometimes when the ignition coil is on the border line and the engine is shut off after running a while it actually gets hotter from soaking in the heat - the flywheel cooling fins are no longer suppling cooling air. The heat may expand an internal connection and cause a short in the circuit, when it cools the connection can come back.

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mroman59
Mel That is good to know, I was thinking there may be two, like on my 26HP B&S OHV V-twin. I was afraid that two coils would cost me more than the tractor is worth, LOL. If you know a place with a good price, let me know. If anyone knows, it would be you, having three 6216's and replacing them several times. Thanks, MR

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MowerMechanic
I run these twins on several machines. I know this problem very well. The easiest way to combat this is before you shut the engine off idle it all the way down. then when you get your fresh beer and jump back on leave the throttle down and don't touch the choke. Try this, i bet it will work

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ezliving4ume
quote:
Originally posted by MowerMechanic
I run these twins on several machines. I know this problem very well. The easiest way to combat this is before you shut the engine off idle it all the way down. then when you get your fresh beer and jump back on leave the throttle down and don't touch the choke. Try this, i bet it will work
I'll try that! I actually pulled the OEM engine out and replaced it with a newly rebuilt 18.5 because of this problem. Guess what the 18.5 did the same. New wires, plugs, coil, rebuilt carb, changed the intake manifold gaskets. removed heads to see if there was a stuck valve or something in the seat. It seem that the battery needs to be a max charge in order to spin it up fast enough to start. If it won't start throw a jump to it from the truck, it'll start then. sm05

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mroman59
Now that I think of it, I did not have this problem until I switched back over to an original size battery that fits under the seat. When I purchased the tractor in 1989, I ran it for one summer with a small lawn mower battery and because of the acid leakage onto the metal, I decided to install a car battery. I had to drill new holes and raise the seat pan & seat enough to allow for the larger battery to fit. Car batteries lasted me for 10 years or more and saved me many a headaches over the years, IMO. I switched back to those small cheap ones recently and now I am having this problem. I wonder? MR

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dhardin
I tend to agree with MowerMechanic here. One other hint is the fact that when mroman squirted starter fluid it would start. Its not as much as the stater fluid as it is taking the time to open air cleaner and get more air into the flooded cylinder. Many carburetors act this way, you have a starting procedure when cold or first start. And another for restarts. I have seen this and have found a quick way to evacuate a flooded cylinder. Get a air hose with a air blow off end and shoot just air into the carb. If its really flooded, hit it with air and then turn it over at least one revolution and hit it with air again. Then throttle on ideal, no check. Then to restart it. Had one guy tell me once he flooded his mower it takes sometimes 30 to 45 min. before it will start again. A cheap little $5.00 spark checker (Harbor Freight) is a quick way to eliminate failing coil. Not necessarily a weak coil but a over heated failed coil. It will pay for it self the first time you take apart a motor and replace a coil and find its not the coil. A good multi meter is good to for checking coils. The fasted and the first thing I do on any motor problems is snap on this coil tester, give it a few spins. And then pull the plug to see it its wet with gas, gunk, water, fouled. Bingo-if its has spark and gas in the cylinder, you can go from there quickly. For a week coil I use an multi meter. Test it before you start the motor. get a reading cold and then compare it when it runs and fails to start. The hot coil could be just weak and you will see a lower number or nearly dead coil in the reading comparison's. Your bigger car battery may have been keeping you going. Not for sure, very posable.

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UCD
It is not the magnatron ignition spinning. It is the starter spinning slow. This can be caused by a bad stater drawing high current when hot, High resistance connections (dirty electrical connections) Dirty battery connections Bad ground ETC. Even a low cranking amp battery not up to par.

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mroman59
Well, I have had the tractor since 1987 and never had an electrical/starting problem until last summer. I guess it is time for something to go. I will check the starter, coil, plugs, battery and connections this spring.

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mroman59
Richard, If you try the car battery, I think you will like it. However, there are a few things to consider. First, look for the smallest one you can find at KMART or WALMART or maybe some foreign battery. Find one with terminal posts on the side rather than top. This will allow you to keep the seat as low as possible. I dont know if there is one you can use that will not require raising the seat pan. I tried but never found one. However, since they last 10 years, I was not looking very often. If you do have to raise the seat to fit the larger battery, there will be slight incline forward that you have to get use too while sitting on the tractor. In addition, when you lift the seat to work inside for any reason, the back edge of the seat pan will catch on the rear tires and will not recline all the way. It's no big deal IMO. You may get use to it or not. MR

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ezliving4ume
thanks mroman59, if I do a car battery it will be side post and it will fit in the same location. I have no interest in modifying the rear seat pan. On to the problem, I purchased a new coil from napa and it didn't help. sbull78 not saying right, wrong or indifferent,just saying. I even polished the side of the flywheel,lol After doing the work mentioned in the above post, I decided to get a rebuilt 18.5 hp. I transfered all the new parts to the 18.5 from the 16. And guess what same problem. Not cool! So changed the parts around and same problem! The only thing I have been able to do, to get it to start when hot is jump it. It just spins faster I guess. It doesn't spin that fast when cold but yet still starts. Mine doesn't even try to start when hot. It acts like no spark but if you check the plugs there is spark, hum? So fuel/air ratio then, Thats what I really think it is, So the idea of idling it down then shutting it off. Would allow for less rotations of the pistons, keeping it from drawing as much gas into the cylinders, without spark, keeping it from flooding. Then on start up crank it with the throttle on idle, if it doesn't take off, put the throttle to full to help with extra gas removal? What do ya think? Is it a plan?

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ezliving4ume
O and just happened a pond this: But in 1982, as new U.S. federal safety regulations required every small engine manufacturer to add emergency shut-off switches to lawn mower applications, company engineers discovered that engines with the Easy-Spin intake were unacceptably difficult to restart. The Easy-Spin was moved to the exhaust valve, but this move presented mediocre power output. Where that was an issue, a mechanical compression release was used. The intake valve Easy-Spin had continued to be used on B&S's larger engines, but was then shelved in 1997 due to new emission regulations.[7]

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mroman59
Interesting. I always idle mine down before shut off or at least try to remember too. I was taught that was the proper way. Usually when I idle down and shut off, it is because I am done using the tractor though. I am beginning to think that UCD maybe on the right track. He is suggesting the starter is going bad. I have a local electrical repair shop not too far from my house. They will take apart the starter and examine it for $25. They will repair any internal parts or rewind it if necessary for less than the cost of a new one. I am tempted to do that first as opposed to changing the coil. I will test the coil first before taking off the starter. I can even call the electrical repair shop and tell them what it is doing and see if they think the starter would cause my problem or even call Simplicity dealer. The mechanics in the shop throw me a bone once in awhile cause I've been in there so much over the years. LOL As far as the air/fuel ratio being the problem, you can tell that is what I was thinking at first by the title of my post, but I have rebuilt my carburetor several times over the years and set everything to manufacturers specifications. If there is a problem with the starter, maybe it is causing premature failure of the coils. I will know more in the spring.

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