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PhanDad

17 GTH Tractor

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PhanDad
A while back there was a discussion of "large frame tractors" and the 17 GTH was in the middle of it. There is one listed for sale in the eBay forum; I've never seen an actual one and the photos below are the first I've seen that weren't in advertising literature.






As I remember, the discussion concluded it is a large frame tractor. Was this Simplicity's first large frame that used a vertical shaft engine? The first of the newer style Conquests/Prestige/Legacy large frame tractors? PS - It still looks "small" to me - a bigger 6000 series or something (it looks to have 10.50x12 rear tires)?

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ezliving4ume
The hydo rear end and the Kohler instead of a b&S. That pretty much the differences between the 6200 series and the 17 GTH, that I know of anyway. It is funny that the frames on these tractors are almost if not the same as a LT of the same time period. But the tiller attachment and ground engagement attachments were only offered to the 6200 and above. I have a 6200 series and conceder it a LT but, simplicity list it as a GT. Guess I should rethink that.

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HubbardRA
I tell people that I only collect large-frame tractors. To me a large-frame tractor has a horizontal shaft engine, a driveshaft, and a BGB. The engine sizes vary and the transmissions vary. They use 12 inch rear wheels and 8 inch front wheels. They come as both FDTs and RBTs but the basic design remained the same from late 50s thru early 80s or later. That is what I collect. The one you show in the pictures does not even interest me. It is a Lawn Tractor, not a Garden Tractor to me. Just my opinion but I am sticking to it.

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Brettw
I was under the impression a GTH-L was the large frame Sovereign type, and the GTH was the 6000 series type. I may be wrong however and have absoutely no clue what so ever about that of which I speak.

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mroman59
I did not know they made a vertical shaft large tractor. I wonder why they did that. Are the newer style Conquests/Prestige/Legacy large frame tractors vertical shaft? I thought they would be horizontal? I was looking at some John Deere in those categories and they were all horizontal shafts.

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ezliving4ume
They are very nice gt's, now I wouldn't go plowing an acre with it but for the avg. Home ower there good. Sunrunner, my electric lift came in tonight! I'm going to post a what I'm doing thread with it. Any luck on the dim.'s for the one point?

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UCD
quote:
Originally posted by mroman59
I did not know they made a vertical shaft large tractor. I wonder why they did that. Are the newer style Conquests/Prestige/Legacy large frame tractors vertical shaft? I thought they would be horizontal? I was looking at some John Deere in those categories and they were all horizontal shafts.
They didn't The vertical shaft tractors are Small frame.

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Chris727
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Hribar
The conquest and prestige are vertical shaft tractors
I would say that 99 percent of people on this forum consider the large frame tractors to be the Sovereign-type (bevel gear box drive) tractors. At one time it seemed Simplicity considered large frame tractors to only be the Sovereign type, having printed a "large frame repair manual" covering only the BGB machines and no powermax or larger tractors. To add to the confusion, in the past the Simplicity ID charts do refer to the Legacy, Sunstar, 7000, and 7100 series all as "large frame" tractors. The 6200, 6500, 1700/Late Landord, are "small frame garden tractors." I have a "new" (circa 2007) product ID chart that has completely dropped the "large-frame" designation. Now the conquest is a "Yard tractor," The FDT's are now shown (never were previously) but are listed as a "small frame":(! and the 7000/7100, Powermax, Prestige, Legacy, 6200, and Sunstar are all listed as "garden tractor"

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PhanDad
Chris, Thanks for your reply. I agree the "large frame" terminology is a thing of the past. And to add some further "redefinition" of products, in this 2006 Simplicity booklet, the Legacy was called a "sub compact garden tractor":


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PhanDad
UCD, This is the page that labels the GTH a "Large Frame Garden Tractor", it might be a mistake, but Simplicity printed it (third row, 1987--1997): http://www.simpletractors.com/quick_ref/large_garden.htm Maybe it's not a "17GTH" but some other type of "GTH". I'm aware the 17GTH-L is a "Sovereign".

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UCD
Here is the parts manual for the GTH 16 & 17 tractors They are small frame no BGB vertical shaft engine. Basicly a 6500 series with a name change http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/default.aspx?filename=heCBEN8apJ2rE3CBh5kbp796Dq MFG#1691766 16hp MFG#1691824 17hp PhanDad The large frame depicted in your link you posted above are the Sunstar series it had a 18GTH MFG# 1691528 ect. & a 20GTH MFG# 1691381 ect. The 16GTH & 17GTH were small frame with no BGB & vertical shaft engine The 18GTH & 20GTH were large frame Sunstar with horizontal shaft engine.

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ezliving4ume
Large frame, small frame, I'm confused? In my little brain, If it has ground engagement attachments its a garden tractor(so you can garden with it). If there is not ground engagement attachments its a lawn tractor, cause you can't turn up the ground with out the attachments.

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