Timing Kohler K301 (battery/points) Won't fire.

[Dale]

(Title edited for engine model #, see subsequent posts for updates) Is there only one points adjustment, the gap setting? I hadn't tried rebuilding an engine in 30 years. My machinist said I could probably get by with lapping valves and honing cylinders but the crank throw should be ground under, so we did that. I rebuilt the engine using a Stens kit with appropriately sized crank. Previous to the engine failure, the engine had been touchy on cold starts and it behaved similarly after the rebuild. The engine didn't fire immediately and still required some cranking and delicate manipulation of throttle and choke until warmed up as it did before throwing the rod. The engine exhaust sounds staccato and harsh when cold, then mellows as it warms up. As before, there wasn't enough power available to pull the tractor, until the engine had run for a minute or so. After the overhaul I mowed with it for about thirty minutes. Power output varied from fair to good, but not quite up to Parr. Upon a cold restart it ran skittishly for about three minutes then it quit. I haven't been able to get it fire at all since, though I've tried various control settings and dripped fresh fuel into the cylinder. Compression jumps to about 90psi on the first surge, 110 on the 2nd and 120 on the third. Spark looks good, but an acquaintance suggested that the timing could be off. I told him I had set the point gap at .020". He said there was a separate "Dwell" setting but he didn't know how to achieve this except by trial and error. He said try changing the point setting to see if that might get the engine to fire. If I could get it to run again, he said, then set the throttle at half and manipulate the points until the sound of the engine smoothed out. "Dwelling it in," he called it. He said after this the engine was likely to start with less difficulty and run better. Otherwise, I haven't found information about his procedure or dwell specifications for the engine. I'd appreciate it if anyone could connect these symptoms to a likely cause or provide information about timing in addition to what can be found in the Kohler manual. Thanks. Dale myers

[Dale]

ERRATA: Sorry wrong engine number in original post. It is a K301 Moderator, You have my permission to correct this.

[UCD]

You can correct your own mistakes by clicking on the edit icon (paper & pencil)

[Dale]

Carefully reviewing the online manual, I found timing information I didn't photocopy when I rebuilt the engine. I think I only had the gap spec and just rolled the cam to the top. I'm going to try this. pdf pg.: 72-74, http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2379.pdf I wasn't able to get "find" to work (on this pdf document)at my Public Library. Does anyone find that it works for them? Dale

[lugnard]

Try a different spark plug. Either a new one or just a good used one. I have had 2 recent "episodes" where the plug will spark good when laying on the head (checking for spark) but will not fire under compression. First time it drove me nuts for a couple of days. And I mean I tried a lot of stuff...changing valve timing..swapping carbs. It would pop sometimes, backfire, mostly just spin over and nothing. I pulled the plug out I bet 20 times and saw good spark. Put a new one in and it ran perfect. Good luck, Harry

[xenon172]

You can get a free service manual direct from Kohler that should answer all your questions. The K series timing can also be set with a timing light which is also explained in the manual. This is the link for the manual. http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2379.pdf

[HubbardRA]

Just gapping the points is not always enough. Several times I have needed to remove the points and polish all of the corrosion off the contacts before re-installing them and setting the gap. They can sometimes develop the coating which will not allow a good spark to be produced repeatedly. I have always set them at .020, and never worried about timing. If you use a timing light, you may need to change the gap somewhat to get the precise timing. As far as I know, there is no other timing adjustment other than changing the point gap. If the engine will start but not run smoothly, then the condenser may have gone bad in the open condition. I had that happen once. I could get the engine to run, but never smooth enough.

[jasper]

As already said the timing is controlled by the point gap. The woodruff key could have sheared on the flywheel which could manifest itself in a multitude of ways and end in an engine stoppage. When those Kohler engines are up to snuff they don't want much choke at all. I have found, short of freezing cold conditions, they want the choke off at the first sign of firing or they flood. I have also found the emulsion tube in those carbs. to be absolute, either good or bad and are difficult to check although I have never seen one stop an engine from starting. I would also try a new spark plug, it is easy to over look the easy. I was just two days ago looking at a Briggs single cast iron (converted to 12 volt) and the points were set at .025 the engine would start run poorly for a short time then die but it lost all spark in doing so. I set the gap to .018 and it started and ran perfect. Good luck! Bob

[briggsetc]

Us old time mechanics remember setting/checking points with a dwell meter that measured the time the points were closed [dwell]. It is a more accurate setting. It would show up worn distributor shafts also. General Motors distributors had a window so you could use an allen wrench to set the dwell,even when running,if I remember right. That was the good old days !! New points every 15-20,000 miles, sooner if you didn't lube the distributor cam lobes. Coils burning out. Ballast resistors leaving you on the road if you had a Chrysler product. Best to not hit any big water puddles with your 289 Ford because the ignition was up front. Shure miss the point set ups == NOT Gary

[Dale]

Thanks for all the replies. Since my original post I photocopied the timing information from the ignition section of the manual. It says to center the flywheel S mark with the "window" in the shroud. The points should just be opening there. It turns out my original timing method resulted in the points opening at about TDC (very important to refer to the marks when timing.) I set them to open at the S mark 8 Deg. BTDC I believe it said. No light but did refer to the arc with the key on. At this setting the engine fired right up with no harsh exhaust note, but that wasn't the end of my problems. The tractor had sat outside some and there were emulsions in the float bowl, so that may have been the cause of some of them. I mowed about an acre, but had to quit because the engine started acting like it was lugging. At first I thought this was because I was cutting some 8" tall grass, but before I was done I realized the engine was doing this with no external load on it, as far as I could tell. It sounded like it was trying to tear itself apart. When I get home I'm going to see if it still does the same cold. If so, tomorrow I'm going to check the flywheel key first. Dale