chris1044 Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Using the landlord today, I noticed that the left rear wheel was moving quite a bit more than the right going from forward to reverse. Since I was out mowing the lawn, I said whatever and kept cutting. Fast forward ten minutes, and I went to go from reverse to second and nothing...something in the rear end let loose as you can push it around when it's in all gears. It's not the belt, nor is it the shift linkage. Since I've got a B110 in pieces, I swapped the rear end from that to the landlord and finished the yard up. I need to adjust the center PTO and the brake band, but for now it works. So, my question is how common is it for the rear ends on these to let loose? Something in it that can be fixed (shear pin/woodruff key??). I've got a steep hill in the back yard that's roughly 30 yards long by say 40 yards wide...don't know the grade, but it's steep. When I cut, I go up the side in second, then use the engine breaking in 2nd to cut downward....is this too much on the rear end?? Starting to think perhaps another tractor is in the works for me (Case 444 maybe).
ReedS Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Quite often the roll pins that secure the right hand diff drive gear to the hub, shear creating a "no drive" condition. Later versions of the hub have a pressed on gear but no way to adjust the limited slip feature as the later diffs used a different spring arraigment on the pinion gears to provide the limited slip. Other failures are just allowing the axle to slop side to side, which can allow the driven diff gear to disengage itself from the key and also rarely the diff pinion gears can self destruct. I've also seen the keyways in the axle shafts wallow out which can ultimately end badly for the diff gears. The best prevention against future failure is a smooth transition between forward and reverse whether it be mowing or plowing (or anything in between). One word on the Cases and I don't know if it pertains to the 444, but that some of those were of a hydraulic not hydrostatic drive which tends to allow them to freewheel downhill!
chris1044 Posted May 29, 2011 Author Posted May 29, 2011 So what you're saying is tearing into the rear end may not be a total waste of time? The "new" one I swapped in has some side to side play, so I'm sure it's on its way out as well...
ReedS Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Most likely you'll find the problem in the differential not in the transmission. Side slop can be adjusted by moving the collar on the left side of the axle shaft. Also turn the transmission input (by hand) while in gear, if the axle tube turns then the problem will be in the diff area.
dentwizz Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Hopefully not the tube... The afore mentioned pinion is not hard, but you would have a couple working gears if it was one bad pinion. Side slop is the main killer of roll pins in my experience(just had the RH lock collar let loose while sickling a couple weeks ago.) Keep them tight and you side slop minimal and you should be fine. BTW, the roll pins are 1/4" x 1" from Tractor Supply. Cheap.
MPH Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 -----BTW, the roll pins are 1/4" x 1"------- How do you get the sheared pins out of the hub?
dentwizz Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 I know there are some neat tricks but I haven't mastered them yet:( Most of the time you can get by with pushing the remnant further down the hole and puting the new one in since the holes are 1.5 inches deep. The condition of the holes is critical. Often when the hub is loose and the pins bend it can make the holes conical. If that happens you will likely want to rotate the gear and drill a new set of holes as the conical holes will create stress issues on the pins in the future.
TommyK Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Jack the back end off the ground. Make sure both rear drive wheels are up. Spin one wheel. The other should spin just as fast in the opposite direction. Try the other side the same way. My guess is, on yours, the other wheel won't move much, if at all. See if the shaft with the associated wheel you are turning is moving with the wheel. If not, something is wrong with the wheel to axle connection. Could be a broken hub on the wheel or axle woodruff key slot. Or the woodruff key is sheared. (Never heard of that happening). If the shafts on both sides move together with their associated wheel, but the wheel and shaft on the other side don't move, your problem is internal. Sorry, that's a BIG job. You gotta open up the differential gear box. You could get lucky if it's only a broken snap ring which holds one of the axles into the differential bevel gear. If that's the case you should be able to slide the axle out of the housing. I wouldn't recommend pulling it all the way out. But, if you can pull the axle outward and it moves more than a fraction of an inch, that's probably what it is. Good luck on the fix!
chris1044 Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 quote:Originally posted by TommyK If the shafts on both sides move together with their associated wheel, but the wheel and shaft on the other side don't move, your problem is internal. Sorry, that's a BIG job. You gotta open up the differential gear box. You could get lucky if it's only a broken snap ring which holds one of the axles into the differential bevel gear. If that's the case you should be able to slide the axle out of the housing. I wouldn't recommend pulling it all the way out. But, if you can pull the axle outward and it moves more than a fraction of an inch, that's probably what it is. Good luck on the fix! Thanks for the advise. I haven't done this, and won't have time to do any type of diagnosis until the weekend (or maybe the fall..who knows - It's functional right now). But, I'm positive it's internal to the rear differential. I'm not an expert on lawn tractors, but I fund my toys fixing cars (former auto tech...). The diff is toast. Neither wheel spin together, and the thing can be pushed with no effort in any gear. Plus, when pushing in gear there's a helluva sound coming from the rear diff...like some teeth may have sheered or something. Eitherway, it's not good.
Willy Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 quote:Originally posted by MPH -----BTW, the roll pins are 1/4" x 1"------- How do you get the sheared pins out of the hub? Most times you don't ,but if you turn the gear to a spot between the old pins you can drill new holes.
thedaddycat Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Check out this post, I think some pics of the gears and diff are on page 2 and for internal views of tranny parts, on page 3... http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=10303&whichpage=3&SearchTerms=tranny+case
chris1044 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 Thank you for that thread reference! So what's the pin that is busted/bent?? Looks like the inside of a manual trans...shouldn't be that hard to rebuild. No brass bushings/washers to replace?
ReedS Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 This is a photo of the diff and related parts from Kirk's post,I've noted the roll pins, hub and gear. [img]/club2/attach/ReedS/diffpic.jpg[/img] Note that four of the pins are out of the hub and that it appears to have been redrilled.
chris1044 Posted June 5, 2011 Author Posted June 5, 2011 Thanks for the detailed pics, Reed. So essentially the roll pins shear/bend and the drive gear separates from the hub, correct? Off topic, but where are the completed tractor pics??
thedaddycat Posted June 5, 2011 Posted June 5, 2011 You can reinforce the roll pins by getting smaller ones that fit inside them. That will "double wall" the pins and increace shear resistance. The bent and broken pins are what attaches to the shift shaft and engages the shifting forks inside the tranny. There are no pics of the finished tractor.
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