dlkelley713 Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Just thinking "down the road". My hydro is definitely weaker when hot than when cold, but it's not a 'problem' to this point. It was more evident while plowing my GA clay recently. Other than some apparent internal pressure leakage, everything works well. Is there a 'minor' rebuild (o-rings and gaskets) for this type problem, or is it usually pretty extensive? Does this sound like a pump rebuld or pump and motor too? I know these are vague questions, but I'm a rookie hydro man. I found an old post where Ray had posted a link to the Sundstrand 15 repair manual, but the link was bad at this point. A fresh link would be helpful if anyone has it. I also found some old discussions on using a heavier viscosity oil than the recommended ATF to increase the internal pressure. Anyone run heavier oil, and if so, what are you running? I know most folks just find a 'parts tractor' with a decent hydro, but the Simplicity and A-C garden tractors are few and far between here in GA. Thanks for your thoughts, Dan
Burntime Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Just find another and switch it out. They go for 100-150...
OrangeMetalGuy Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Have you replaced the filter? I would rule that out as a possible issue first. Use a Simplicity filter (or I think there is a Wix or NAPA that crosses to it, but you need the exact right filter). I use Dexron in mine, I'm guessing that's the ATF you are using.
dlkelley713 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 I replaced the filter with the simplicity filter and Dex VI just a couple of months ago. I haven't ruled out a belt issue, but the fact that it weakens once it's hot makes me lean towards the hydro itself. Just to complicate things a bit more, I have a BGB seal leak on the drive side, but the belt appears to be dry. I put a dowel in the linkage spring cage because I was having a hard time keeping it lubricated while tilling in dusty conditions. So it definitely isn't a linkage or cam roller problem. Burntime, your advice is good, but I'm not clear about compatability through the years. I have a 'late' model Sovereign ('93) that looks like yours. If I were to keep my eyes open for a hydro, are there any compatibility issues I need to be aware of? Will any 15 series hydro work, or are there specific models / and or brands to look for? Thanks, Dan
RayS Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 The Sundstrand pumps are the same. No sure if you have hydraulic lift or not. You can change the springs if needed if you have hydraulic lift.
dlkelley713 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Thanks Ray, I do indeed have the lift. Dan
RayS Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 If you buy one that doesn`t have the lift you can change the springs from yours. They have different tension springs. I just did that on my 7790. Transfered the springs over to the pump that I put in it.
dlkelley713 Posted June 3, 2011 Author Posted June 3, 2011 Thanks Ray, that's good information. Anyone here running higher viscosity oil in their weaker hydros?
RayS Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 You can use Allis Chalmers Poer Fluifd 401 in it. Make sure you are not using a cheap filter. The link below states the types of oil that can be used. I have Dexron in mine. http://simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=113405
TommyK Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 A heavy equipment service man told me that if one or the other, pump or motor, is bad to replace the pair. No sense pumping potential trash from the old one to the new one. Worn pumps and motors shed shrapnel from bronze shavings to chunks of hardened steel. It just perpetuates the cycle of decline in both.
DarrylF Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 I have an old Airens garden tractor with a Sunstrand 15 hydro. It looks identical to the Sunstrand in my Simplicities on the outside, but certainly may be different inside. Anyway, here's what Airens recommends in their Sunstrands. "NOTE: 5W-30 or equivalent detergent type motor oil meeting requirements of American Petroleum Institute (A.P.I.) Service Classification SE should be used in hydrostatic system for normal operations. Change oil to SAE 30 if ambient temperature exceeds 80 degrees F and tractor is worked heavily (such as plowing, tilling or when lift is continuously used to capacity)." The only reason I can come up with for this unusual lubricant is that the rear end which is also the hydrostatic reservoir is basically a Jeep rear end. Perhaps use of motor oil is a compromise so the Jeep rear end is properly lubricated. ATF or hydraulic fluid just may not work well in the Jeep rear. This is not a recommendation to use other than the recommended lubricant in your Simplicity. I am just sharing information I found interesting. Darryl
RayS Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 This has nothing to do with a Sundstrand but the Prestige TuffTorq K-71 uses 10w-30 motor oil in the rearend as well. They had Sundstrands in JD`s and Cubs as well. Not sure what they recommended.
acfarmer Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 I replaced the automatic transmission fluid with 15-40 motor oil in my MF 1655 garden tractor that the hydro was getting a little slow in and it helped alot.Hydraulics still work just the same.One thing too the made for diesel engine oil I use (use it in all gas and diesel engines I own) have alot of additivies that will help clean up the system.
HubbardRA Posted June 4, 2011 Posted June 4, 2011 You can use ATF, motor oil, or hydraulic oil and all will work satisfactorily. The ATF probably has better anto-foaming characteristics than the motor oil. Using a heavy grade hydraulic oil may help your slippage problem. I've seen several farmers do this to keep old tractors working longer before doing a hydraulics rebuild.
OldTractorHound Posted August 31, 2021 Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) Anyone know the hydro capacity on a Deutz Allis 916H without a deck lift? I'm in the process of getting my manuals just saved this ol' beauty from being scrapped, now getting belts/fluids/filters in order. She was neglected by a real doozy, to put it nicely..lol Previous owner(s) put a new starter on her, it cranked very very slowly with my newer bat but idk how it ever did it? I put jumpers from my truck and when I simply touched last cable she started cranking on her own without a key in it even. I figured stuck solenoid or wires shorted? Got new solenoid and while installing noticed the Posi & Neg were ran directly from bat to starter. Posi hot, skipping solenoid, Neg ran off bat to starters mount to ground it and a large 3rd wire was connecting both hot/grnd together and was ran to its solenoid, thats how its new starter was actually installed. I have no idea how it actually cranked with/without a key, nor how it tried to start on its own jumping it. Funagled at its best...lol No idea why it never blew my battery up in my face when I hooked its cables to it, never even sparked thank thy' lord. A friends bat blew up in his face, very lucky too see today, docs dug plastic out his eyes all night long he said. Ouch!! Jumping his car he put his lighter near it to see and boom! So' don't ever do that one either...lol I knew my bat here had good juice & wondered why such a slow crank from it? Well duhh' fancy wire job, who knew...lol How in the world someone can screw up a simple starter install on a Kohler idk, we all bypass "everything" to start one occasionally buy' who knows what they were doing here but it was crazy wrong SO' NEVER DO IT..lol? The guy I got tractor from (a scrapper) said its original owner told him he installed a brand new starter and it never started again so' they called him to scrap the thing. He's so much smarter than that, he tossed it on Craigs for $100 and I grabbed it for those brand new beautiful Carlisle rear tires if nothing else? So' I should have looked its starter wires over first thing but didn't, all my fault for not doing that if it put me in ER as I was told. Points were new but set at about 40+ not 16-20..lol You know their off when you can use your big toe for a feeler gauge, sort of a given...lol They stripped the spark plug hole too so I had to get a Spark Plug saver kit and put a M14-1.25 plug fitting in her, 5 min repair. Just more TLC than it had seen previously I'm sure you folks seen worse but its an 8th world wonder how this beast was around still. Rewired correctly with new solenoid she kicked right off, running great. All safety switches work as intended except seat as I need a new switch there, originals long gone. I will install one cause after I pulled a running mower off a friend many yrs ago just trust me its a very scary thing to actually see play out live so safety switches are nothing to me, I know exactly why they have them. I gave $100 for this tractor and it has brand new tires all around, so far it all checks out just needs some TLC. Rides/Drives Great, stops well' no! Needs brakes so gotta visit McMaster Carr yet for new lining. But' here she is in all her glory, thank you fellow scrapper. So now you guys can dig on my big yellow ROPS and custom paint job...lol Two toned out with small red pin stripes!! Hot damn. Looks like he hit something on lower left front hood, has a bit of bondo there and he painted its lower half, paints a different shade like a Teal? Has a nice heavy duty weighted front bumper, like a 2x4 but all iron with snow plow brackets welded into it and thick small steel bar across top?? Real nice job on it. IDK what the green bracket on rear is, my guess a salt spreader maybe, no idea? I sure like her a lot. Its deck (48") belts are off and on order now cause he was replacing them too with his starter, mid PTO works fine, front cone PTO gone or never had that option, idk how these came new? Like to get some narrow front wheel/tires, like 480 try ribs as tractors turn so much easier with them its like having power steering then, (tmi sorry) disc in my neck blew apart 15yrs ago still in there so its a real must for my old arse you know? Ebay will handle tires, I'll offer these wheels to members once I locate a narrow set. Anyway' thought Id share my new $100 project, is 2 qrts hydro fluid correct with filter change? Is there one or two filters on this beast I read some had two, some one filter? I see one near left rear tire... Big thanks to all you tractor huggers helping other huggers...Oh' and Its okay to do it as long as they're old enough!! Peace Edited August 31, 2021 by OldTractorHound Tried to make letters smaller, won't allow after posted, sorry so large?? 2
MikeES Posted September 3, 2021 Posted September 3, 2021 The Sundstrands hold 3-31/2 quarts. One filter, on the side of the transaxle. Wix #51335 for the short filter and #51307 for the long filter. NAPA uses the same number.
OldTractorHound Posted September 4, 2021 Posted September 4, 2021 16 hours ago, MikeES said: The Sundstrands hold 3-31/2 quarts. One filter, on the side of the transaxle. Wix #51335 for the short filter and #51307 for the long filter. NAPA uses the same number. Thanks, guess Ill grab more fluid before I start too then. I picked up 2 going by what I read but thought that seemed low, glad I asked. Appreciate it....
Brettw Posted September 4, 2021 Posted September 4, 2021 There is a vent on the left, ("drivers") side of the transaxle case. Small pipe street elbow with a threaded vent on top of it. You will want to lift it while filling or you will be here next week still trying to fill the trans. 1 1
OldTractorHound Posted September 5, 2021 Posted September 5, 2021 (edited) Saw that vent when pressure washing it off last week and I had to look up what it was for. Simple solution but certainly looks a bit odd, not really OEM looking so it caught my eye...lol. I changed its fluids today and held that valve open to fill trans. When fluid stopped filling I simply rocked the tractor back/forth just enough so trans fluid sloshes around in pan and it sucks fluid right down by doing so. Didn't roll it, just rock it a bit. Took just 10-15 minutes to get my 3.5qts in like that. It started raining as I finished filling so hopefully tomarrow I'll bleed her off good. Noticed it climbed my big hill in reverse a bit better than in forward (cold or warm) before hand so I switched its check valves around today. No trans noises at all so I'll do some linkage adjusting if it didnt change anything. Both valves appeared to operate just fine by hand so idk? When weather clears up I'll get back on it and test/adjust some. Fwiw- I put Full Syn Valvoline Dex Max life trans fluid in, idk if trans fluid builds pressure the best but tranny fluids do clean best so I figured I'd run it first and let it clean & free up things. Any fluids or tricks for much better pressures Im all ears but I know it may not be pressure related. New drive belt made no difference. Thanks Edited September 5, 2021 by OldTractorHound
Bill725 Posted September 5, 2021 Posted September 5, 2021 Quality Hydro located in North Prairie, WI rebuilds hydros. You may want to give them a call.
OldTractorHound Posted October 1, 2021 Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) Thanks Bill725 I may need them, its not doing right yet? Barely crawls up hill but takes off good on flat no matter whats done. I feel it speed up about 20ft after take off like pressure may be slow at building maybe? Switching valves around made no real difference on it like I mentioned? I think its time... Thanks Edited October 1, 2021 by OldTractorHound
Tarheel Posted October 29, 2021 Posted October 29, 2021 I have a late model BGB Agco that is doing just as you describe. On the hand lever for the hydro is a shaft that fits through the frame and connects to the linkage with a double "D" . The short piece that is slotted to fit that double "D" was/is badly worn so that when you move the hand lever, the linkage doesn't move for a bit of the travel. That doesn't mean yours has the same problem, But I hope it's that simple.
Justplaintim Posted November 4, 2021 Posted November 4, 2021 I think I would put $100 for those all day long. Nice find. Could you take a few more pictures of that rear hitch It looked pretty interesting.
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