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heron

Oil Seal on a Kohler Command

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heron
Can anyone give me some info or replacing the seal on the 20hp command in my 97 Sunstar? Another member said it was easy...? After getting the motor all cleaned up is looks like there would be a gasket on the front case of the motor that could be leaking...Is this possible? Can I simply replace the seal just by taking off the PTO and pulling the seal out? Will I need a seal puller?

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CarlH
There is no gasket for the closure plate. It is sealed by a bead of RTV all the way around. I have found HondaBond to work well. BTW, to break the closure plate loose there are casting bosses at the top and you use a 1/2" breaker bar. It took me a while figure that out. sm02

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heron
Is the closure plate something that often leaks? Or, would you think it was the seal? Is the closure plate a big job? Right now it seems as though oil has come out the seal area and spread around the front of the motor but it also seems as if there has been oil residue around the closure plate...? If the closure plate is not much harder once the PTO is off should I just re-seal it? Does the oil seal R&R easily?

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heron
Killer AC: Been there, done what? Can you help? A..well, more than likely on these motors "x" is usually the weak link...or, most of the time it's the closure plate rtv that goes bad and leaks... I'm new to this, would like to have some constructive input. No one has told me if the oil seal just pulls out once the PTO is off or what it takes to do the closure plate...c'mon fellas, please share.

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heron
Ray, Thank you for that information. Did not know that was available. Couple of questions for any that will help: 1. Is it a good chance the closure plate needs to be re-sealed at 580hrs? 2. If so, does the motor have to be removed or can it be done from the front? 3. Is the front seal easily done from the front without removing the closure plate? 4. If I'm going to do the oil seal should I do the closure plate at the same time if it's not that much more difficult? Thanks in advance gentlemen!

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CarlH
I have never had the closure plate or seal leak, so I can't help on what is most likely to be leaking although the seal seems most likely. You should be able sort it out by how the oil tracks run. The clutch will throw anything that hits it out. If there's no oil behind the clutch it's not likely the seal. Remember the oil will mostly track down (gravity, right?) since there is no strong air movement in that area. You will probably need to remove the clutch to really check this out. While you may be able to replace the seal in the tractor, I don't think you can reseal the closure plate with engine in tractor. It will be much, much easier to remove the engine. Not really that hard. Take the hood off (2 pins), 4 bolts, electrical connector, battery cable(s), gas hose, and the driveshaft slides off the hydro when you pull the engine forward. You will need to remove at least the hood, probably the muffler, and maybe the clutch to really see where the oil is coming from. Until you identify where the oil is coming from, we can't help you much more.

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heron
Carl..Thank you! There is oil behind the clutch and it's probably spreading down and all over the engine. It was so caked with oily clipping when I first got it I had no idea where to look first. There is quite a bit of oil built up on the frame right under the front of the motor. You have answered my question as I will now just do the seal and see what happens from there. I'll probably wait if it's the closure plate leaking until I rebuild it. Kind of a waste to pull it plus I think I may open up another can of worms if something else breaks. Is the seal an easy replacement? Do I just pull the clutch, pull the seal and press the new one in the appropriate depth? Will I need any special tools..I've got the basics +...but not anything specific for these small motors. Can you tell me if these Kohlers should run really smooth. At full throttle it has almost an uneven spot..most people would not even hear it and it may be perfectly normal. I've been around lots of different motors but not this small. Plugs are good, gas is good, air filter assembly brand new...easy to start, no smoke when I shut it down properly, plenty of power...?

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jmhusby
When I had my Agco Allis into the doctor they said the front seal was leaking and the engine had to come out to replace it. I was't there to see but they fixed my problem, the valve seat came loose so the head had to be replaced. The nice thing was they were $250.00 cheaper than the first quote.

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Al
Hi, We change the seals by removing the clutch and pulling the old seal. I put 3 sheet metal screws in the seal and use a little bar to pull them like a claw hammer pulls a nail. Use a short piece of steel tube (6inch long)to drive the new seal in. Al Eden

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comet66
quote:
Originally posted by jmhusby
When I had my Agco Allis into the doctor they said the front seal was leaking and the engine had to come out to replace it. I was't there to see but they fixed my problem, the valve seat came loose so the head had to be replaced. The nice thing was they were $250.00 cheaper than the first quote.
The engine is actually mounted in these tractors backwards. That is why the engine has to come out to replace the front seal, which is behind the flywheel. I pull them as Al does and use a piece of PVC pipe the proper diameter to set the new one. Just be gentle and make sure the new seal goes in square or it will leak. Fortunately this is the easy one to work on and if it leaks it is no big deal to pull it and start over.

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heron
Comet: I'm confused ? Al says he simply pulls the clutch and then the seal..nothing about pulling the motor. You say you have to pull the motor? Don't I remove the clutch/PTO on the front of the motor and the seal is behind it? Not sure why I'd have to pull the motor.

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RayS


This is a picture of a Sunstar with a Kohler. If your motor is sitting in tractor as this one is and I assume it is. The clutch is on the front below the muffler. If it is leaking behind the clutch remove the clutch and change the seal.

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rokon2813
Aaron, the pto end of an engine is generally referred to as the rear, and the flywheel end is referred to as the front. As Comet stated, in these tractors the engines are mounted backwards, so what you are replacing is the rear seal. Just like Al said. The pto end of your engine is toward the front of the tractor, so novices think it is the front of the engine. ;) Comet was referring to the other post, that said the front seal needed to be replaced. For the front seal (rear end of the engine in the tractor) you would need to pull the engine. Similarly, on most front wheel drive cars, the engine is set in sideways, so the "front" of the engine is generally toward the passenger side of the car, not the front of the car. Clear as mud right :D:D

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heron
Thanks for clearing that up...sorry but during the thread I was specifically referring to the front of the motor as in when you refer to any operated/seated device the benchmark is given from the operated vantage point. As in the front of the tractor/mower is the front when you are seated...Many motors are not specifically directed but when working on them the accepted benchmark is from the operators seat. When reading the thread I have always been talking about the front of the tractor/engine..under the muffler. Rockon: I did specifically ask in that question as to whether the closure plate had to be removed when the seal is done.. I don't think the flywheel end has a closure plate...? Thanks for all the input...I know I can figure it all out but I'd like to skip the mistakes if I can..I think I finally got it..;)

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rokon2813
I have never done one, however, reading Als post I would say no, you do not need to remove the closure plate to do just the seal. I would also guess by looking at the pictures, if you do want to do the closure plate, you will probably need to pull the engine. BTW, you won't likely get much better advice than Al's in most cases. He is one of the best, though everyone here is pretty good. As for your last question, does the flywheel end have a closure plate? I've never seen that particular engine but I doubt it, most don't.

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heron
Rick: I couldn't agree more about the mistakes...I just wish I had more time to make more mistakes so I could learn that much more...:D Although it's nice picking up helping tidbits from people that have been thru it...to me the best thing about technology/internet is this type of realistic experience sharing..not that some reality star is getting a divorce..what a waste of electricity!

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heron
Just had a thought..is it common for the oil seal to leak due to compression being built into the crankcase and blowing the seal out....? 580 hrs, starts well, runs well..doesn't bog up hill or anything...should I test it out? Just seems like if that were the case there is no sense changing out the oil seal...over thinking it maybe..:D

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comet66
quote:
Originally posted by jmhusby
When I had my Agco Allis into the doctor they said the front seal was leaking and the engine had to come out to replace it. I was't there to see but they fixed my problem, the valve seat came loose so the head had to be replaced. The nice thing was they were $250.00 cheaper than the first quote.
heron, your question was about "the front case of the motor". As rokon stated my reference was to the above post. To try to clear up the "front seal, rear seal, engine removal confusion". Sorry I added to your confusion.

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