Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
Brettw

Stability and Weight

Recommended Posts

Brettw
I am taking a survey, and here is my thought. I have considered making a wheel weight/spacer all in one. Work with me here. I am thinking a 2" thick billet of steel, approximately 8" in diameter (to fit just inside the wheel rim). Machine the center with a 2-1/2" hole (for the axle tube). Drill 5 holes 1-1/2" deep that would accept a lug bolt and be big enough for a socket. Drill the remaining 1/2" at the diameter to allow the lug bolts to pass through and bolt to the wheel mounting plate. Drill another 5 holes, offset from the original 5 and tap them to accept lug bolts. You would then bolt on the weight (I would estimate 30+ pounds a piece), and then bolt on the wheel assembly. Weight and a 4" wider stance (desired on my 7100 series). Weight, more stability, and a very clean look. "Unsprung" weight, (I feel, anytime you hang suitcase weights or stinger weights, etc. to the rear, you put additional stress on the axles and axle tubes) increased traction, and elevated stability. This would still keep the tires within the width of a 42" blower, 36" tiller, etc. I am working on researching the cost of materials and machining. Is this something that more of us may be interested in? If so, I am sure there are cost savings in volume. Your input/s?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dave7016
I have actually heard the suitcase weights are easier on the tractors rear end/axles than the weights most of us use on the rims. I've been told that is why so many newer sissy tractors use these weights. The axle doesn't like rotating that extra weight on the end of the wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hotrodtractor
why would you not just go with wider tires or like I do an run 12x10.5 rims and make the back spacing your own, then fill with WWF. I can have 12x10.5 rims wmade with any offset you want. I run 2" on mine and it don't think it would tip if I wanted with the 24x13's 8Dbut yes wider tires will over hang narrow blower. I measured mine with the 26x12 and I am 40" wide compared to the 36" wide stock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HubbardRA
Putting a spacer on the right wheel will apply a significantly larger load to the bronze bearings in the hub. This could easily cause premature failure. These tractors are designed to tow and haul heavy weights. I personally use hang on suitcase type weights. Don't misunderstand me, I only put them on the tractor when they are needed, otherwise it runs without weights. I don't recommend that "any" large amounts of weight be permanently mounted to the tractor, regardless of what type it is, because it causes unnecessary wear. Additional weight/load absolutely causes more wear, no question about it, and no matter where it is attached. Wheel weights, because of their inertial, will increase the loading on the drivetrain and especially the drive tube(between the tranny and diff). If a person is the least rough when releasing the clutch with wheel weights, he is asking to cause premature failure of a drive tube. If you go to a tractor pull, you will see very few wheel weights, but every tractor there will have hang on weights. As a matter of interest, I have never had a drive tube failure. This is after participating in tractor pulling for over 20 years with the same Simplicity transaxle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw
quote:
Putting a spacer on the right wheel will apply a significantly larger load to the bronze bearings in the hub. This could easily cause premature failure.
Yet, I see any one of a number of individuals using wider wheel offsets, bigger tires, etc. Either way, you are setting the tire and wheel assembly farther out from the hub, whether it be a spacer, or someone who has re-welded the offset. What about duals? I don't understand the difference.
quote:
If you go to a tractor pull, you will see very few wheel weights, but every tractor there will have hang on weights.
I assume this is to be able to adjust weight or meet limits? Considering that there are numerous posts of people loading tires, or adding the stock cast iron wheel weights (sometimes in multiples), again I do not understand. It would seem to me that adding weight to the tractor, adds load to the axles. (If you just kept adding weight to the seat for instance, 100#, 200# 1000# , etc, you would eventually break the axle. On the other hand you could bolt 5000# tires (hypothetically) to the axles and there would be no additional load on them. I am not arguing here, I am curious as to the physics and mechanics. I am not suggesting anything that isn't already being done by almost everyone, just doing it in a different way, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw
Kevin, I understand that you can get wider rims, bigger/wider tires, etc. (I want a set of 26/12/12's eventually, myself) but after seeing the cost of modified rims, bigger or wider tires, and the $100ish+ for a set of stock cast weights, I think this could be a fix that anyone with a stock set of wheels could bolt on and be set to go, in minutes. No need to buy new wheels and tires, no need to buy weights. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but it is a thought I have had.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hotrodtractor
you make valid points it's not cheap 4 sure. For me if I wana play I gotta pay...in reality this tractor hobby/addiction has me in the green anyway. But that's besides the point Overall I think you have a good idea, but 30lbs won't do too much. i am thinking about buying the big 70lbs ones from Jim's tractor as they are pretty cheap. I double stacked the simplcity ones on my machine with chains and they did help but 1 set I did not feel much difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Talntedmrgreen
Here's a spacer/adapter I bought off ebay that I run on my loader tractor. Is this similar to your thoughts? [img]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/talntedmrgreen/IMAG0430.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/talntedmrgreen/IMAG0421.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/talntedmrgreen/Big%20Ten%202011/IMAG0723.jpg[/img] I need to clear the subframe, but never really cared for what I perceive to be added stress to the hub. So far, I've used the setup for a few hours of moving sod & soil and I'm getting more comfortable with it. I don't think I really use any single tractor enough to worry about wearing things out due to added weight. To Rod's point, it's added when I need it, and removed when I don't. I think for such cases, if you can find a 'quick n easy' method for adding and removing purposeful weight, anything is worth exploring. The exception is that FEL machine, which I needed counter weight for. I used my generator mount and fabbed a suitcase weight bar to make the on and off weight thing as simplified as I could with the scrap I had in the garage. Wear on this tractor concerns me, but being a dedicated FEL machine, with many less hours in its future than other tractors, I should be fine. [img]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/talntedmrgreen/IMAG0913.jpg[/img]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Willy
I'll probable get a lot of flack,but here go's. I don't use wheel weights ,except with my loader tractor. The reason being it beats up the Axel keys and key ways. My reasoning? Kinetic energy,if you let the clutch out a little fast it works against the keys, you stop or hit a bugger that stops you the weights want to keep turning and they slam against the keys. It's the same type of action as hitting the bottom of a catsup bottle. Hang on weights and washer fluid are my choice. There will still be some kinetic action even with hang on weights,but not near as bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
acfarmer
Your spacer weight is a good idea if you need the weight most of the time if you only need the weight a small amount of the time I'd go with hanging or other easily removed weight.Weight of any type will cause a certain amount of extra wear and tear but if you need it to get the job done you accept that fact.Wheel weights cause the least amount of wear and tear on a tractor as the ground absorbs the shock not the axles,housings etc from a bounce or bump.Pulling wheel weights is exactly the same as pulling something from the hitch much easier to roll something than to carry it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw
Yes Josh, that spacer is the general idea for mounting. The overall size would be a much larger diameter, and made of steel for the weight purpose. I do also understand the rotating weight being a bit of an issue, however, how that is any worse than pulling or stopping a heavy load I am not sure. So, now with the input I am getting we need to expand the engineering. Josh's mounting hub with a bearing separating that and a steel outer ring. This takes care of the rolling weight, it can spin freely like fluid in the tires. Here's the rub, now we are likely approaching many hundreds of dollars. So if you are going to spend that kind of money, you would at least expect them to be chromed. If they are chromed, and still spinning when you come to a stop, they should likely have some kind of design in them for flash and flair, even though we are only seeing the backside from and angle. So now we have: Added weight, greater stability, greater traction, and we pimped the ride all in one item. Of course at about $1,000.00 per pair, we are going to need some celebrity endorser to help sell these. That will likely double the price. Be ridin' in style with a spinner-spacer weight that is worth twice what the tractor is. What happened to my 100-200 bux I was thinking? I think my business model may be failing. Of course, I do see this applied to certain autos, incredibly, quite often. 5K or more worth of fancy wheels on a rusty '92 Impala......... It just might work!!:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hotrodtractor
When you said spinner and chrome my whole perspective for this changeddOd It would have to left on all the time as pulling these off would be a PITA. Heck I am often too lazy to pull off the front 2 bolt each weights and just run em year round

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Talntedmrgreen
The answer is always more tractors. Spread the work out, and minimize wear on each one :D Load them with all the weight you want, and even if one does break, you have more to keep you goin. I'm kinda dissapointed noone mentioned this as of yet ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hotrodtractor
I like Josh's logic.. that what I tell my wife: I need a spare, and she says come on 6 spares is just excessive. Then I told her she needs to see what some of you guys haveB)and that I am not that bad... I will not say how she responds to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HubbardRA
Brett, It is your tractor. Use it as you wish. I was just answering your question. If you do not want my answer, then ignore it. I am not going to waste time debating my comments. I am a retired Mechanical Engineer with 34 years of design experience in extremely high mechanical loadings. I was also a garden tractor puller for over 20 years. It doesn't matter what you think of my comments. The tractor makes the final decision about the effects of the loading. It is guaranteed that someone on the site will agree with what you want to hear. Do they know what they are talking about? That is debatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PGL
It's a lot harder to turn a heavy wheel than a light wheel. More strain on the engine and drive train, including axle tube. It's easier to carry a weight as a rolling load, like the driver. Much higher starting and stopping loads to overcome. Think of riding a bike with racing rims and tires vs. one with balloon tires. That said, the spacer weights may not be much heavier than the factory bolt on wheel weights, so could be OK. If the tractors neeeded the weight in normal conditions though, the designers probably would have added it. Portable add on weight may be preferable and helps keep fuel use lower for times when not needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw
Pete: Thanks for the info. I can appreciate a bit of education, I now can compare it to a kinetic energy type of thing, like the good ol' gyroscopes. Always great to share information and opinions with an individual who presents them with a positive and pleasant demeanor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blazerjeepman3
Hey fellas , The Simplicities, Case, Fords,Allis Chalmers,John Deere and a lot of others all made weights for their Garden tractors. It does not hurt these tractors if you add weight in the wheels. I have been doing it since 1964 starting with my new Landlord . Had about 100 Lbs in both wheels. I always engage the clutch as easy as possible. Have yet to break an axle or axle tube. My 3314v I bought new has always had weights. To date I over 2300 hours on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
acfarmer
I agree the extra weight must not hurt anything as I have one of my Sunstars weighted with 300lbs+ of weights and an Ariens GT 18 with a lot of weight on it and neither has had any problems related to the extra weights.I use these tractors here on the farm as small farm tractors and they get far harder use than most any homeowner would give them on a small lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×