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simplicity707

engine rebuild, what's a person to do?

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simplicity707
I'm having a dilemma, and I'm hoping that someone here might have an answer for me. A couple years ago, I took my '66 Simplicity Broadmoor to the local dealer to have the blades sharpened, oil changed, etc. He told me the engine was starting to knock. Fair enough, so I took it home and parked it. Fast forward to today. Still haven't started it since, and now it's been leaking oil badly. Dealer thought it might be a crank seal. Mind you, the engine is NOT blown, just has not been ran in two years, and supposidly knocks. He drove it to my truck the day I picked it up. I went to the dealer a couple days ago to see about an engine rebuild. I took the engine numbers to see if parts were still available (which they are), and that they could do it. Problem is, it's going to be $300 for a bore and crank turn, $300 parts, and another $300. It's almost $1,000 for an engine rebuild! I about had a heart attack. He has a new B+S 8HP engine he said would fit for $595, plus a couple hours labor to install. Looking into this, there is no feasible solution that I see. I would love to has this operational again, but not for that kind of money, so I'm stuck at the moment. It's leaking oil everywhere, and doesn't run. The rest of the tractor is in nice original shape. I don't know what to do, maybe someone can shed some light on this. Awhile ago I found a shortblock, but now it's no longer available, I think someone bought it. Engine numbers are: 146701 0121 01 6603221. Thanks in advance, davep.

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Brettw
Dave: I would keep your eye out for another similar tractor. I think that's a 7 or 8 horse on that tractor. You can put up to a 12 on the early 70's Broadmoors, not sure if you could on the older models. But I have seen good runners or repowered tractors you can buy for a few hundred. In some cases, it may ot even be a Simplicity or Allis. If you are a bit mechanically inclined, the swap is not all that difficult, maybe a few hours. Take the best, part out and scrap the rest, and maybe you're back in business for a very reasonable sum.

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BLT
Also, remove the head and check for carbon build up in the fire deck in the cylinder head. If you hace a piston imprint there is your knock problem. If it is worse then that, follow Brett's suggestion. There are a lot of Snapper rear 8HP mowers running about and I beleive the have the same crank dimesions.

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simplicity707
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I was also figuring about doing something like that, but as the old saying goes, your getting someone else's problems, as far as an engine goes. But then again I don't have a $1,000 to spend on a rebuild. I believe I will keep my eye open and see if anything pops up. The original engine is a 6HP. I would like to keep it original, but original doesn't function at the moment, so I have to weigh the options. Functional vs. lawn ornament. Thanks again for the inputs. davep.

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bud119195
A replacement up to a 8 hp will bolt in with no modifications.And look origional. If you go bigger you will have to start trimming sheet metal to make it fit.Watch craigslist,around here I see them from $50 to $100 or as mentioned look for a cheap rider and use the engine. rear engine riders are a good donor for a briggs 8hp

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Chris727
Avoid the Murray rear engine riders. I think their crank is different, so were some of the MTDs. The Snapper 8hp will have the correct crank and bolt right in. The correct 6hp shortblock is B&S 298550. Last year two different sellers had them for under $100 BIN on ebay. You could add that part# to your saved eBay searches and they will email you when another shows up. You can likely rebuild it yourself MUCH cheaper than what they are quoting you. So they want $150 to bore the block and $150 to turn the crank? Local machine shop turns cranks for about $35 here. You could likely ship them the crank and they could turn it for you. Cylinder boring should only be $35-$45 per cylinder also. You should't have more than $150 into machining.

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simplicity707
Chris, That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. I couldn't believe an engine rebuild would be around $900?? I was thinking more what your were saying, and if I could find a place that did it for around that, I would go that route to keep it original. He just told me it would be around $300 to bore it and turn the crank, then another $300 for parts, then another $300 for labor. I think I will either look for a short block, or see if I can get it redone myself. Anyone know anyone that rebuilds engines?

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JohnFornaro
I'll chip in here, tho I'm not an expert. I'm a believer in re-powers, altho I haven't repowered my 3310H yet. My rationale is that you get a new engine with a one or two year warranty, and that replacing an engine is fairly easy for the prtially mechanically inclined. After all, you just un-bolt and re-bolt, and un-plug and re-plug. I asked around C'ville for prices on a re-build, and the "guesstimates" I got all exceeded the cost of an SEPW 18HP Vanguard. Right now, I'm guessing that my 10 HP B&S is only getting 8HP max. So at some point I will re-power. As to buying another Broadmoor, you could do that, but then you'd have two. Obviously, the second one would be running, so why would you go to all the trouble to swap out the engine? Just my two cents.

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sammiefish
go find a machine shop... (not your simplicity dealer) and get an estimate. you can bring the shop just the stripped block down to the flywheel... and save $ that way too...its my general opinion that dealers are in the business of selling tractors ... not rebuilding engines... would the even do the machining in house anyway?? I like to have the shop split the case and reassemble and torque the head.. so I have a sealed clean unit to put all the externals back on... I prefer it that way so I have clean inners not contaminated by my dirty hands... : ) I bet its much cheaper than your initial etimate

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powerking_one
Dave, If you don't care about maintaining the "look" of the original Briggs engine from the outside (down angled intake/large flo-jet carb), then like others have said, just repower it with an engine from a doner. The mounting base and crank dimensions were a very standard spec. You might be able to move the original carb/intake over to a later generation 8, 10, 11,12HP moter (I think)to keep the look. These engines should be a dime-a-dozen out there used. I see plenty of them at engine/tractor show flea markets each year on MTD, Murray, Crapsmans usually for $100 for the whole tractor (if you could call them that; LOL). Tom (PK)

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simplicity707
I think I may just go that route (unless a shortblock comes along). I would rather have it operational, than keep the original motor that doesn't run. I can always keep the original motor (future rebuild), and in the meantime, I could at least be using the tractor. I wouldn't mind putting a 8HP in it, I think the 6HP is a little too small. Thanks everyone for your input, I think it helped me to decide what to do. Now the search for an engine begins!

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TimJr
I haven't checked, but I didn't think parts were still around for the 6hp engines. Has the aftermarket picked up on them? - I can't imagine for such an old engine. Plus, many engine shops won't bore an aluminum bore engine - or maybe that's why they are charging so much - it's not as easy to do and have it come out right as with an iron block or iron sleeve. You need another dealers opinion if you can't do this stuff yourself, because the pricing and even the suggestion of being able to fully rebuild a 6hp surprises me. Tim

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bud119195


This is my 707 with a 12hp briggs,if not worried about being origional it makes for a nice machine with lots of power.had to trim hood for aircleane and move grill ahead 2" on the bottom so it stands up straighter

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dave7016
So let me get this straight the dealer said it knocks but you didn't notice? And they want $900 for a rebuild? If you ever get in my area (ozaukee Co. WI) and can bring that engine with you I'd be happy to give you a hand. I rebuilt a few snowblower engines and my own 16hp briggs single (pretty cheaply) and none have blown up. I have also done a handful of other engines too with success, including a handful of snowmobile engines. I don't do machine work but if it is needed I have a machine shop through my work that is descent. This price seems nuts as my briggs 16hp cost $75 for piston, rings, and gasket set with shipping to my front door. It didn't need a rod but they were like $35 if I remember right. Feel free to PM me.

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Willy
I think someone is trying to stick it to ya. If you can't hear it knocking and you ears are half as good as mine,it probably ain't anything to worry about. I would pull the head and clean the carbon,then run it at lest half throttle and take a long screw driver place the blade aganst the eng and your ear aganst the handle if it knocking you'll hear it. If your still dead set on replacing it run it till it blows,then you'll have a good reason for replacing it.

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MrSteele
Agree with all above who say to rebuild it yourself. The only thing no one touched on as I see it, is the fact that your old engine likely, at 8 HP, will take a late model engine at 14-16 hp to do the same work. I was in a local shop that I will never visit again a few years ago, that would not sell me carb parts for a Briggs cast iron engine, told me that even if he had them, he would not sell them to me, because my engine was obsolete. To humor him before I walked out, I asked if he had a decent 10 HP engine to replace mine. His reply was that he had a 20, and it would take about that much to replace my 10. After some checking, I found him to be correct in that, at least. Your engine should be able to be built, machine work included for around $250, if you do not mind using aftermarket parts.

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Chris727
I just checked on the parts: Only the STD piston is available. 297693 Piston .010 NLA 297694 Piston .020 NLA Rod, connecting .010 undersized 298788 sub to 398578 both are NLA. Gasket set # 295970 - still available $16.39. I might have a new .010 Piston for this engine, I'm sure most of these parts show up on eBay, usually for less than the price of what they would sell for new, if you could still get them. I would ask them where they came up with their parts pricing, since most can't be had through Briggs anymore, or better yet, start doing business someplace else.

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powerking_one
To Tim Jr's comment about boring an aluminum block cylinder, I have been down this road. I went to a quite respectable machine shop with my Tecumseh LAV-50 block to be bored to .020" oversized and they totally butchered it. As a good business, they compensated me for the damages via a new block and STD piston/rings cost replacements and split the boring charge one half. This was back in 1991. I guess boring aluminum cylinders these days is becoming a lost art form ?? Tom (PK)

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