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SmilinSam

Rattling Kohler 14

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SmilinSam
Need someone to point me in a direction. Going to take the 14 out of my 914 and do some fix up on it. The head hasket is leaking and the fuel pumpis getting weak. I want to take the pan off too and look inside. I had this completely overhauled a few years ago , bored, valves, and new rod, piston etc etc. Its had a little rattle to it ever since. I just attributed it as valve clatter and dismissed it. I work this tractor and work it hard. This summer it , on occasion, when pulling real hard would up and make some serious knocking noise. Wouldnt do it very often, but it was loud enough it would get your attention without any problem. If you back the load off it a little it would cease making the noise and keep on mowing. Engine is still together and runs, and hasnt flown apart. What should I be loooking for when I open it up?

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osenga
my 916 does the same thing. took it in had it looked at and they said nothing to worry about. and been like this over 2 years now and it gets worked good all year round but this one since we dont have enough snow yet but it would of been

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powerking_one
Sam, I would be concerned about the counter-balancer gears/bearings/stub shafts. Since you had this overhauled by "someone", these can be easily overlooked/ignored wear items. Having rebuilt many K series singles in my earlier days, the stub shafts, needle bearings and thrust washers were usually required replacements of the rebuild. With the oil pan off, mic the crankpin or use Plasti-gauge to check the conn-rod oil clearance. With the head off, (and if you have an inside mic), check the cylinder bore to make sure the rebuilder did not oversize it incorrectly. Just my thoughts, Tom (PK)

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Al
Hi. I would look 2 places in addition to the balance gears. I have seen these engines with a "knock" that was very hard to find. The problem was the camshaft clearance to the pin. Before you take it apart, pull the sump off and rotate the engine so the heels of the camshaft. When you rock the crankshaft back and forth and you reach the point where the exhaust valve is just closed and the intake just starts to open you may have a little knock or click. If it does it is the cam bore clearance to the pin on the gear end. If it is I would look for the other hot full load knock to be fuel quality and or lean mixture. We had a serious issue with K341s in the mid 80s. On a hot day some would (when really warmed up) when hitting some heavy grass sound like you put a hand full of bearing balls in the cylinder. (Super loud) It was pre-ignition or what used to be called "Ping". It was due to the gasoline being degraded for the "oil crisis" It only showed in some engines and we fixed them by having a small amount of metal machined out of the combustion chamber. Later I used a die grinder and carbide burr and just ground out a little of the top of the chamber and around the outside of the chamber. Fixed these units. There are several head changes through the years including moving the plug. These changes are not published and only change the part # of replacement heads. (supercedes) I suspect the later engines had slightly lower compression. Al Eden

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larry8200
Probably not relevant, but, the K301S in my 7112H knocks a fair amount at certain RPMs and I have found running hi octane in it eliminates most of it. Doesn't slow its oil consumption though...

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sammiefish
hmmm. octane... i noticed my 416 started knocking a little when warm this summer... i guess that before i tear it down ill try the better gas then the points... THEN removea not really sure what your "rattle" was... my valves were more like what I would call a "tick"

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perry
the timeing out of wack will give it a spark knock rattle. might want to get those gernade gears serviced or get them out of there . we had a discussion on balanceing gears here - http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=119244&SearchTerms=balance,gears

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SmilinSam
Fell behind doing other projects today. Only got the hood off the 914. Will work on this a little eaqch night after work. I have been running 87 low octane with no ethanol in it and wondered if that might be a problem... The engine in question is a 1992 replacement K321 overhauled to 10 over. Will get back here with some more info when I get the pan and head off later in the week.

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Brettw
Just from my experience, all the K301-321's "rattle". The ones I ran always sounded like they were going to come unglued. As stated above, I think it's balance gears and just plain ol' Kohler sounds. When using my 7112 and 7114, they always reminded me of how ours sounded in the 70's and 80's, so it seemed normal to me. Then again, maybe it's ready to grenade all over the place. Hope that helps.:D

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sammiefish
mine don't normally rattle... i think its a sign of needed maintenance...I don't think I would ignore it..... its telling you something i would guess... while I have an open mind... and while its a very desirable possible solution.... I'm not thinking octane is the solution.. you can remove the balance gears as people suggest...or maintain them as you would any engine issue... if you remove them you might consider re-balancing the crank... you can get a crank weight from some suppliers... this isn't a new issue I'd go with the timing / points first... the only rattle (really a tick) I was able to fix without timing or tear down was simply to adjust the valve tappet clearance... very simple and easy to do.... pull the carb and 15 minutes later... viola... if its not that at least you know... just some thoughts... good luck

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SmilinSam
Took the head off and cleaned a fingernail thick layer of crud off. Reinstalled with new headgasket. That fixed the head gasket leak, but not the rattle. Then replaced the fuel pump( another long needed maintinance job) Now it starts right up Also noticed its leaking oil around the outside of the block at the front of the engine where the camshaft rides. This got me to remember that it was doing this right after the rebuid, and I smeared some sealer in the cavity. Its leaking again. I assume this may mean that there might be a wear issue with the camshaft/block????

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sammiefish
quote:
Originally posted by SmilinSam
Also noticed its leaking oil around the outside of the block at the front of the engine where the camshaft rides.
its not clear to me what you mean here.... are you referring to the penetration of the block by the push rod? depending on where the wear is.... (block vs. pushrod) push rods are replaceable... http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Bag-Kohler-Breaker-Push-Rod-47-411-04-S-/330372318465?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D300423221921%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5859764084657148391 done from outside... pull old one out put new one in...

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SmilinSam
Camshaft rides in a hole inside the block and the PTO side of the block has a plug or something on the outside to keep the oil from running out (I think.) Thats where it has always leaked(seeped) since the rebuild. If you guys cant tell I dont rebuild engines . Closest I have come is honing and putting some new rings in a 8hp kohler once. I generally keep to just swapping engines around.

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SmilinSam
For now I'll let it be. It starts and runs great, and doesnt seem to use oil. When I get another tractor rotated into the line to take over this ones tasks, I may just do some surgury to this one. Thanks Al

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