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tractornut

Sovereign whines

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tractornut
I got a 97 Sovereign that I don't think has too many hours on it. I've been using it alot lately plowing and am a little concerned about the whining its making. It gets very loud at full speed forward at full throttle. It doesnt whine much in reverse though. As you increase speed with the hydro lever it will progressively whine louder. The BGB has fresh gear oil and almost no play in it. With the clutch disengaged it will not whine. Also it doesnt whine when sitting in neutral only when moving. Is this just the nature of the hydro etc. or signs of a problem in the rearend, BGB?

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MikeES
Whine can be caused by air in the hydro fluid, especially if it gets louder with increased lever. Hopefully someone here can give you the link to download the manual that shows how to check and fill the hydro fluid...the trick is that the vent must be open when checking level and filling.

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tractornut
Oh I forgot to mention that the hydro fluid and filter have been changed. I did lift the vent and have it filled to the top of the rear pipe out the back. Now the old fluid was very dirty and the hydro had a whine even when sitting. But that went away after the fluid change. I'm running napa heavy duty hydraulic fluid in it and the short napa filter. I read where the whine from the BGB gets louder in cold weather and I believe I've noticed it increase in the cold.

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MPH
Not sure what you call cold weather but I run syn gear lub in my tractors Reg gear lub will stick to the housing and the bears run dry with the proper amount of chill in the air, enen on big truck rear ends.

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RayS
My sundstrand pump was whining yesterday morning blowing snow. It was 7 degrees here. I know it isn`t low or need the filter changed. It hassn`t done it any other time. It was just the cold weather.

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Brettw
quote:
My sundstrand pump was whining yesterday morning blowing snow. It was 7 degrees here. I know it isn`t low or need the filter changed. It hassn`t done it any other time. It was just the cold weather.
Ditto.

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rokon2813
quote:
Originally posted by tractornut
I got a 97 Sovereign that I don't think has too many hours on it. I've been using it alot lately plowing and am a little concerned about the whining its making. It gets very loud at full speed forward at full throttle. It doesnt whine much in reverse though. As you increase speed with the hydro lever it will progressively whine louder. The BGB has fresh gear oil and almost no play in it. With the clutch disengaged it will not whine. Also it doesnt whine when sitting in neutral only when moving. Is this just the nature of the hydro etc. or signs of a problem in the rearend, BGB?
To help a bit, this in red indicates the noise is probably not in the bgb. When you depress the clutch, the bgb continues to turn, however the hydro unit should stop turning.

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tractornut
Just had it out again and thought I'd put some grease to the fittings on the rear axle assembly. So I greased it till quite a bit of old grease came out around the tubes. Now I did grease it a few months ago. Its still whining and it sounds like straight cut gears making a high pitched "WRRRRRRRR" it full speed. Haha thats about all I can think of to describe the sound. So what about the diff? Do they make noise and does it get its lubrication from the fitting on the axle tube? Or would I need to take it apart and pack with fresh grease?

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RayS
The differential on the right side would only make a noise when the tractor is moving. The axle shaft get grease from the zerk on the axle tube. There is a zerk on the right side hub that meshes with the gears in the differential. The grease would get into the right side differential from that zerk. Maybe the hydraulic fluid you are using is to thick in this cold weather. In the picture below it states what fluid should be used. I have been using the NAPA - Wix filter for years. I doubt that is the problem. I believe the NAPA number for filter is 1335.


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tractornut
RayS, Yes that is when it makes the noise, when moving and gets louder with speed. I am using the NAPA filter and their hydraulic fluid which is supposed to be all-weather. Now this tractor works great there is no lack of power from the hydro. Just that annoying whine. My bonehead neighbor who I bought the tractor from for $100 thought he'd do me a favor and tow it about a 1/4 mile to my house! And they didn't push the release lever for the sundstrand! Think that could have caused damage? If so I haven't noticed anything that seems like it.

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tractornut
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
The operators manual say not to tow at all. At least you can pick up a spare pump reasonable. They show up on ebay regularly.
Thats what I was afraid of! I swear its more of a gear whine sound so I greased the heck out of the rear diff. I'll see if it works in there and quiets down any. This poor tractor has beeen neglected all its life till I got it. I'll look for another pump just in case.

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Al
Hi, The 7000 and 7100s used a short about 2 to 2 1/5 in high filter. When the hyd lifts came out the charge pump was changed. About the time the Sovereigns came out, there was a problem with the hydro being noisy. The Company changed to the 3/4 filter. It is about 3/4s as long as the filter was when it was hosed up to the filter between the frame plates and the short filter that was used on the side of the case when mounted on the transmission itself. Due to its increased capacity, this filter reduced the noise that was apparent in the Sovereigns. I don't know what changed in the hydro at this time, but it was not significant but it seemed to cause a charge pump noise. Off hand I don't know the PN of the filter, but we use the longer filter on all of this family. Regarding the towing. When a unit is towed, the charge pump is not running and there is NO OIL up to the pump and motor in the unit. The motor is geared to the rear axle about 100 to 150 to one. With NO LUBE, the motor is destroyed with towing in excess of a few feet like 50. THE BY BYPASS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!!! THE MOTOR CANNOT IN ANY WAY BE DESTROYED WITHOUT THE PUMP BEING DESTROYED OTHER THAN TOWING. WHEN THESE TRACTORS WERE NEW THERE WAS NO WARRANTY ON DESTROYED PUMP MOTORS, AS THE ONLY WAY FOR THEM TO FAIL WAS TOWING!!! If the motor is damaged and the pump is good, IT WAS TOWED. About 15 years ago, we had a banker that towed his tractor from a shed to his house about 3 blocks, about 1500 feet and it was about 1.00 dollar a foot, about 1500.00 to fix it. Note that at low speed, the V twins all have higher bevel gear box noise than the opposed twins or even the singles. We advise people of this when we sell a kit. It is due to the 270 degree spacing in the firing on a V twin, that causes the bevel gear box to bounce back and forth on the backlash. This is not a whine though. Al Eden

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Brettw
quote:
I swear its more of a gear whine sound
Is the sound constant, or just under load? Forward vs reverse? I have a loud set of gears on my 7118. It is definitely the gears as it changes under load and is distinctly different from the Hydro whine. I have not had any problems with it (knock on my head), so I simply attribute it to noisy gears. Fluid and filter have been changed twice since I have had my tractor, a bit over 2 years now. It is full and clean. I did notice a much louder hydro whine in the cold, but the more I think about it, I believe it is due to the cab. The cab seems to enhance all of the tractor sounds.

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MysTiK
seems to me I remember reading a call for a 10-minute warmup in cold weather, certainly for the engine, but also for the hydro fluids to get circulating. I also noticed the hydraulic fluid, rather than tranny fluid - but does anyone know anything about the actual difference in viscosity between the two? I grease like crazy also, displacing older grease; but did not know the significance of the 2 different zerks locations on rear diff and rear axle tubes - thanx for that, Ray. I always read Al's posts 3 times to glean the experience shared. @tractornut - towing maybe a problem, but it works, and maybe you got lucky. Give it every chance; esp. if warm weather ops is good. Sounds like larger filter might be better too. great thread this. I wonder if a garage heater, or a lightbulb under the trans would help this also. I believe the trans can only warm itself through normal ops - and so I wonder if the whine improves when the work is almost done. just my little bits. sm01

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tractornut
quote:
Originally posted by Brettw
quote:
I swear its more of a gear whine sound
Is the sound constant, or just under load? Forward vs reverse? I have a loud set of gears on my 7118. It is definitely the gears as it changes under load and is distinctly different from the Hydro whine. I have not had any problems with it (knock on my head), so I simply attribute it to noisy gears. Fluid and filter have been changed twice since I have had my tractor, a bit over 2 years now. It is full and clean. I did notice a much louder hydro whine in the cold, but the more I think about it, I believe it is due to the cab. The cab seems to enhance all of the tractor sounds.
Sounds just like what mine is doing. Its not constant, just when moving and its louder in forward. The hydro itself is pretty quiet when the tractor is sitting but when you go forward the noise starts. It will change pitch too when going down hill then up hill under more load it will change again.

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tractornut
And I do know that it was towed and maybe several times for all I know! But since I changed filter and fluid there hasn't been anything that makes me think its burned up. I must have gotten lucky but the hydro is very responsive and pulls good.

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Al
Hi, If it works ok, it probably survived the tow with no major damage. These hydros all have some whine, some more than others. If you have a cab, this will concentrate the noise, like in the summer when you are on cement and pull into the grass. The grass absorbs a lot of the sound. Al Eden

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rs07
My Deutz Allis 912H had the shorter filter on it when I got it. I serviced the transmission and bevel gear box back in November. My dealer sold me a larger filter and said that is what he sells to his customers now. I think it makes it a little quieter. Not much though. I think the tractors with the hydraulic lift seemed to have a little noisier transmission as opposed to the ones with manual lift.

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Blazerjeepman3
Robert ,was the part #1709322 that you got from the dealer. I have that filter on one of Sunstrands and it seem to run a little quieter. I received from Jacks today filters for another Sunstrand and as a replacement to the 1709322 they cross reference to a Baldwin B132 which is the same size. Bigger than the Simpl.#1671234 that is now recommended.Almost 1 in. longer

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DanD
For use in cold weather, I would make sure you have a good cold weather oil in the hydrostat. Simplicity has recommended ATF and trans-hydraulic oil over the years. My old Sovereign has Amsoil ATF in it, while my newer one has Amsoil trans-hydraulic oil in it. Sundstrand doesn't care which oil you use, I just keep the tractors with the same type of oil they've used all of their lives. I don't mind paying a little extra for getting the best oil I can get because repairs are expensive (see Al's post above!!)

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Blazerjeepman3
I agree with the best oil possible and it seems the bigger filters result in less noise. I wonder if there is some marginal limit or lower flow rate in the small filters verus the larger filters .I think that it what Al is saying

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