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scrapper

87 vs 93 octane

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scrapper
I had my wife fill up the 5 gal gas can today. She bought 93 instead of 87. I always use 87 octane with sta-bil ethanol treatment. The owners man. for my 7012h says to use regular gas. Am I hurting anything by putting the 93 in to use up the 5 gal. Or am I asking for trouble? Before she took the can I treated the can first with the sta-bil so it's basically ethanol safe. I'm just concerned about the octane rating in itself. Should I use it up in the tractor or dump it in the impala and get the can filled with reg 87? thanks again guys!

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Dark
Get rid of the gas and burn the Gin. FlatHead Fuel [url]http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_history.html[/url] Can be legal [url]http://ttb.gov/industrial/distillation_of_ethanol.shtml[/url] alcohol can be made from grass [url]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=grass-makes-better-ethanol-than-corn[/url]

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scrapper
Thanks guys I always treat my fuel with an ethanol stabil treatment. So It was treated, and our 93 has ethanol in it in Buffalo NY. So the ethanol isn't the issue. the issue is I feel I'm going against the owners manual. If you guys say it won't hurt it I trust your expertise... thanks again.

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scrapper
Yeah Ive been hearing that 93 in other areas is ethanol free. western NY were I live, it all has 10 %E. But like I said I treat the fuel for the ethanol.The ethanol is really not my concern, as much as going against the manual. My manual says, high quality regular gas. That's the exact wording. to me regular means 87. i don't know I guess we will find out I just topped it off with the treated 93. I guess I'm just worried the higher octane in the cast iron older engine won't be happy. I trust you guys though and you're experience, so , its in there.

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scrapper
I just grabbed the owners manual. it says,"Fill fuel tank with clean,fresh,leaded or lead-free regular grade gasoline." Possibly what I think You guys are getting at is that 1978-79 when the tractor was made, 87 octane was about were our 93 is now? I'm just afraid to go against what she's used to. You guys know better than me so I took your advise, and I'm gonna plow with it in about 20 mins. I will let you know how she goes.

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SmilinSam
quote:
Originally posted by jmhusby
At the BP station in town the 93 is ethanol free so thats what I use in all the tractors. Works good. Not a fan of ethanol.
Thats where I am goin to start filling up and with the same. I have to drive 7 miles out of the way, but it may be worth it. Nothing is running well on the 87 straight gas in town here, not even my truck.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by hotrodtractor
93 is ethanol free by me.......thats what the tractors get
The good stuff might prevent problems; problem is about water, gas, and something resembling gas, forming layers, separating. I avoided some starting problems by switching, it helped. I imagined more power and smoother running also. Can't prove much - but NOT having problems is just fine with me. Your wife has perhaps helped you avoid some problems. sm01 This topic will come up again, as we all learn more. sm01 More info for your reading enjoyment. sm01 http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=118367 http://forums.redflagdeals.com/gas-line-antifreeze-947243/

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TimJr
Octane is octane - can't compare a 1970's 87 octane rating to today's 93 octane and say they are the same - one is 87 and one is 93, period - it's law and science in regards to the rating and advertising of such. I will give you that it seemed like fuel used to store longer without the problems we have now, but stale fuel is just that - stale fuel. Must be nice to have access to gas without ethanol - it is all 10% around W. MI except for a few spots too far for me to drive to. Unless posted as ethanol free, 93 can easily have a full 10% ethanol - in fact, the ethanol is a cheap way for the gas companies to blend fuel and get the 93 octane rating. Ethanol has an octane rating well over 100 - look it up. There are a lot of good resources for understanding fuel and octane out there. Check with engine manufacturers and fuel suppliers to get more info. Basically - running premium/93 octane in your stock, properly tuned lawn tractor is like setting your money on fire - a waste. All grades of fuel are supposed to meet minimum standards for cleanliness. Premium fuel may or may not contain extra additives that can help minimize engine deposits. It's too bad over the years that the octane rating and the terms regular/mid-grade/premium have gotten so intertwined that it's hard to know what it all means for what you are paying for, or that to get the better additives, you automatically get the higher octane that most stock engines don't need(therefore you are buying something you don't need as part of the fuel). Just wait until our wonderful government sticks us all with 15% ethanol. It's a ball that has been rolling for at least 6 years, and probably won't get stopped. Check out info from sources like OPEI - Outdoor Power Equipment Institute to find out more. The EPA doesn't care about our vintage lawn tractors, even if they do run well and aren't gross polluters with the right fuel. 15% ethanol will be a bad day for us. Tim

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scrapper
Yea thanks rockon, and everyone else. I have used the arrowhawk ethanol free gas. I live about 10 min from basom. I have heard horror stories about res fuel. I pumped gas as a first job at doc's. Also a rez gas station in Basom. They would tell me don't use it. They never said why, I never asked. I just didn't use it. That was a long time ago and that doc's station is closed down now."I wonder why", they still sell tobacco just not fuel. maybe I will give arrowhawk a try.

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1Litre
The manufacturers that use any small engine be it 2 or 4 cycle up to 250 hp are shaking in their boots about e15 and e20 . even with fuel injection they can not get a handle on it without expensive sensor additional equipment added to the unit. Still in the small engine world moisture absorbed from the air is a major problem . Add the customer varient to the picture and a warranty nightmare rears its ugly head. Have any of you seen the VP(racing fuel) fuels guy's are doin. Metal quart cans of high octane no ethanol unleaded high grade fuel. 2 cycle oil added is one of the choices offered and they claim up to 2 years stabil in the machine. Ready ? $5.50 a quart and they are bringing it to market now. What do they know ? Alot about fuel and where it comes from. They would not bring it to market with all the cost assosiated without a very good reason to walk the plank to the end with their wallet still in the back pocket. Just so you know the ethanol in gasoline is only 6 to 7 percent now so it will get no higher than 10 percent if a mistake is made.it is added at the distribution hub when filling the trucks. Oil refiners can not add ethanol from the refinery as it will cause catastrophic failure to the whole distribution system. Amazing our little fuel systems survive. Ken

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rokon2813
I'm about 35 minutes from Basom. The one I was refering to is The Totem Pole. I've used res gas for 20 years without ever a problem, however I do not drive new cars. I buy at The Totem Pole, The Rez, TP deli and Arrowhawk. The newest I have ever put it in is an 02 Buick

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scrapper
I didn;t know totem pole had 0 Eth. I'm gonna try it. I drive older vehicles my self. I trust the older designs. "and the price is much better usually." Do they sell off road diesel? That's all my 99 7.3l F350 gets. She likes the red.

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sammiefish
the story I understand... higher octane is required by higher compression engines. to use high octane in lower compression engines can lead to carbon buildup on the head.... this additional carbon can lead to higher compression ratio... leading to a condition where higher octane (more expensive) gas is required to run well.. I always try to use the lowest octane recommended. i doubt 5 gallons of 93 will be a problem. pulling the flathead and cleaning carbon is required maintenance anyway... anyone hear similar?

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1Litre
Octane in the flat head engines requires less than 87 pump octane for the 7.8:1 to 8.2: comp ratio that they are. Hot days with air cooled engine will require more octane to prevent pre ignition or detonation that damage engine internals. Fuel is made for auto industry and the rest can adapt . Power in numbers rule applies here. Premium fuels have more than Ethanol to increase the the octane and those chemicals mostly Dymethyle Benzene(Toluol=Enamel reducer)are the main additive to do that. Those compounds are more stabil than the gasoline and will oxidize less and if the gasoline is goin bad and form soluble sludge ( first stage of oxidation breakdown )they keep it soluble in the gasoline too. That is why members claim less problems with the premium fuel. May even clean fuel system. Unleaded fuel forms less carbon than leaded fuel. Briggs and Kohler will tell you this. Unleaded fuel carbon deposits are hard and cause more internal damage.Good thing there is much less carbon over long use. Higher octane gasoline is more evapaorative ( tied to vapor pressure specs ) than lower octane fuels. Gasoline is complex stuff.

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rokon2813
quote:
Originally posted by scrapper
I didn;t know totem pole had 0 Eth. I'm gonna try it. I drive older vehicles my self. I trust the older designs. "and the price is much better usually." Do they sell off road diesel? That's all my 99 7.3l F350 gets. She likes the red.
Don't remember, I don't think so. They do have on road though so maybe. TP deli has off road, didn't like theirs in my 96 power stroke, or my buddies 99, had to change fuel filters a lot more often, but that was 10 years ago.

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427435
I have to wonder about premium fuel advertised as having no ethanol in it. The ethanol is an octane improver. What is in the premium fuel if it doesn't have ethanol in it to increase the octane??? Lead and MBTE are illegal. I get a kick out of all the fear and old wives tales about E10 fuel. Besides 3 gas garden tractors, I have a Scag lawn mower, a couple of old carbureted vehicles, an old boat with a carbureted engine, a motor home, an old McCullough chainsaw from the 60's, and the "normal" cars. Several of the old cars, the boat, and a couple of the garden tractors do a lot of sitting (months at a time). I have yet to have any fuel problems with E10-------------which is all that has been available in Minnesota for over 12 years. I guess we just grow better corn here.

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