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leeave96

Agco-Allis 918H - Got One - Got Questions

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leeave96
I posted a note yesterday regarding how to move a Sovereign type tractor - thanks everyone. I also said I'd start a new thread too - so here it is...sm01 I picked up an Agco "Model 900" tractor yesterday for $200 with 42 inch mowing deck. I thought going in that this tractor would have the Triad engine, but on further inspection last night, I found it had a Kohler Command CH18S engine on it - yippie!!! Here's a couple of pics:










Based on some searching, I think this tractor was "branded" as an Agco-Allis (vs the later Agco name only). The engine spec number is 62513... which I think tells me this tractor is a 1995 or 1996 year make and though the model number shown in the pic above reads "Model 900", would have been "branded" 918H. If anyone could confirm this, that would be much appreciated. The tractor has seen a lot of weather, paint is faded, but not rusted. The deck has seen some "pasture" field duty and the underside is somewhat rough/bent, but not something I don't think I can rebend back. The sheetmetal on the tractor is undented. There is a pulley under the tractor that is mashed pretty good where, I'm told, the tractor was lifted with a fork lift. See the pic below. The pully otherwise spins fine.


More to come in a bit. Thanks! Bill

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leeave96
Here is some more info: The bezel on the dash is falling apart and there are some holes that may be for somthing that are vacant, but I'm thinking they were covered by the crumbling plastic bezel? The gas tank cap glass is broken and the bands that hold it down are gone. See the pics of this stuff below:






Here is another pic of the mashed pulley and a pic of the mower deck




Overall, I think the tractor is in pretty good shape. No hour meter, so I don't know how you'd know the mileage to date. I'm told the engine will fire with gas poured into the carb, but won't stay running. I think that's an easy fix. I know the Triad got some pretty bad reviews, but how are these Command engines holding-up? Do they need a rebuild after some length of hours? What is troublesome about the Command - what should I lookout for? This looks like a VERY simple tractor to work on and I'm very excited to get at it. I'm downloading manuals, parts diagrams and reading about these tractors - but I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions too - so please be patient with my pesky questions. Thanks again everyone! Bill

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jmhusby
The Command is a very good engine. Change the oil and filter a couple of times a year if average use, more if its a lot or dusty. Oil and filters are a cheap maintenance item compared to an overhaul. Above all, keep the engine clean, IE, keep the fins clean and any air intake free of grass, dust, etc.. Running hot can create many problems.

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JimDk
Bill, I'm not really up to speed on the newer Sovereigns, but I think you got a great buy. All the problems that you have shown are cosmetic and easily fixed. You may have a fuel pump problem with the engine. I'm sure some of the guys with Kohler CH experiance will be here to help sort it out. Good luck, Jim

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RayS
it is definitely a command. I have been running a Command now for 10 years in a Prestige and picked up one last week in a 919H. They are a very good engine and I haven`t had any issues with them. You did well. The dash decal is still available through Simplicity and that is a 48" deck. 42" deck used a different bail assembly. What is the Mfg. No. of tractor? You can get a free copy of the Kohler Command repair manual from Kohler and the Spec. No. will tell you what year the engine was manufactured. It is the first two digits. With the black frame it is between 94 - 96 model.

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MysTiK
good deal at $200 - I'd lay low for a while if I were you. sm03 Use the manuals to go thru ALL basics maintenance - look at all the fluids you change. If outdoor stored, I'd be looking for the proverbial mouse nest in the engine blower and tins that tunnel the airflow. Dull paint on mine got the "wd40 shine", or you can use other methods, but it's amazing what wd40 will do right away. on the deck - do the blades turn? is their any play at the blades? that would indicate bearing condition - 2 bearings mounted in housings, supporting visible shafts - if low/no play, grease nipples will allow you to fill the housings with grease. But it sounds rough from what you said. Doing bearings is a pita; but might be needed if excess play. Or you could get lucky with only bent blades; cleaning it will show you details. Don't throw any parts away. My dealer showed me a 500$ bill by adding up all the deck spindle parts. Bearings and grease are cheap.

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dlkelley713
quote:
Originally posted by Bruker
Be sure to shut the engine down at half throttle or higher or you may be replacing head gaskets.
You (or anyone else) mind elaborating on that? I assume you're referring to the backfire issue? If so, I've read that it's just the hot exhaust igniting the unburned fuel during shutdown and that it's not a danger to the engine. I've always just idled mine for a minute before shutting down, and I rarely have the backfire. If I'm misinformed or if I missed the point to the warning, please let me know... Thanks, Dan

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RayS
Dan, he is right about shutting down at half to wide open throttle. Owners manual - operators manual state that. If it has fuel shut off solenoid it is necessary. Backfiring can cause a blown head gasket. Cost me 325 dollars for the repair before I decided to follow that instruction. I believe Bruker just went through the same expierence. Maybe in th repair manual as well. Either way that is what my Simplicity dealer stated that caused it.

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dlkelley713
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
Dan, he is right about shutting down at half to wide open throttle. Owners manual - operators manual state that. If it has fuel shut off solenoid it is necessary. Backfiring can cause a blown head gasket. Cost me 325 dollars for the repair before I decided to follow that instruction. I believe Bruker just went through the same expierence. Maybe in th repair manual as well. Either way that is what my Simplicity dealer stated that caused it.
Maybe I'm losing my mind, but I don't think my CH18 has a shutoff solenoid ('92 or '93).... Dan

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RayS
It may not. Remove air cleaner assembly and if it does it is at the back of carb with a wire coming out of it. What is your spec. No.? My CH20 spec. No. 64512 is a 1995 mfg. Date and it has it . Another way to tell is to disconnect the ground cable while the tractor is running. If it dies the fuel shut off valve closed.


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leeave96
A few more questions. Oil filter for the Command CH18S - do you guys use the Kohler filter or cross it over to something else? If so, what? The hydro filter - so you use the Simplicity filter or cross that over to something else? If so - what do you use? Do you folks use Simplicity belts or cross those over to Gates, etc.? I'm just looking at some maintenance stuff that I can get started on right away - like oil/filter (engine/hydro) change, spark plugs, air filter, belts and blades. Thanks! Bill

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RedbarnRick
You got a great buy on that tractor, the dash panel looks to have had a few toggle switches added to it, that may be what the hole are for, you can get a new dash panel in the classifeds or ebay, as for the filters and belts I always use the simplicity belts and filters, Jacks small engine is a good source for these, Joes outdoor power on ebay is a good source for the pulley and the dash panel, someone posted a paint rejuvenator that worked well on faded paint, too, or mothers has a clay bar that works well. keep us posted and thanks for the pics.

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BLT
If you have the seven digit product number (169XXXX)I can tell you what production year it was built for, When it is out of warranty you can use any replacement filter you want. I have been using NAPA because they are only a block and one half from me. I was also surprised to see a Simplicity hydro fiilter can that was branded Simplicity but under the under the corporate wrapper was a Fram. Filters and spark plugs are a matter of personal preference, mine being Champion plugs and Fram filters. All engine manufacturers set the spec for what they want for filtration. As long as the filter people meet the spec, I am happy. As for spark plugs if they wanted NKG, A_C, Bosch, etc plugs, they would recommend them from the git go.^

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RayS
NAPA 1348 or WIX 51348 filter is the same as the Kohler filter 12 050 01-S. Same quality or better at a cheaper price.I use Simplicity belts. Hydro filter is NAPA 1068 or WIX 51068 it is the long filter but you can use it as well on the side of the hydro. Others have said when using longer filter that there seems to be less hydro whining noise.

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Brettw
I believe if the carb has a solenoid, you would not need to shut down at a high throttle setting? I thought that's what the solenoid is designed to do, shut off fuel the minute the key is turned off? The bent up idler pulley should be available at the dealer, or a local bearing vendor may have it also. I think you rather stole that machine. The hydro lift alone is worth the price.

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dlkelley713
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
It may not. Remove air cleaner assembly and if it does it is at the back of carb with a wire coming out of it. What is your spec. No.? My CH20 spec. No. 64512 is a 1995 mfg. Date and it has it . Another way to tell is to disconnect the ground cable while the tractor is running. If it dies the fuel shut off valve closed.
Thanks Ray- I'll have to pull the air filter and recheck mine for the solenoid. I've dodged a few backfires successfully but I don't want to push my luck. Thanks, Dan

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1Litre
Not picken a fight here but I think Simplicity had a bullitin years back about FRAM not meeting the min. spec for hydro filter. Frams cross ref for the filter was and engine filter. The auto industries guys define FRAM as a filter built for price as most other brands are built to "different" levels of quality . Champions are in one engineeres terms who has doctorite degree in electrical engineering as great short life spark plugs but prefers autolite/prestolite nippon denso type plugs for the long term. Champion uses soft electrodes that aid in fighting missfire on the short term but after long term use deteriorate rapidly. I still use them because I can get them for darn near any engine you got just about anywhere you are in this fine country of ours.

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leeave96
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
It may not. Remove air cleaner assembly and if it does it is at the back of carb with a wire coming out of it. What is your spec. No.? My CH20 spec. No. 64512 is a 1995 mfg. Date and it has it . Another way to tell is to disconnect the ground cable while the tractor is running. If it dies the fuel shut off valve closed.
[img]/club2/attach/RayS/ch20.jpg[/img]

I looked at my carb last night and it looks identical to the pic above - so I guess I've got the fuel shut-off solenoid. Thanks, Bill

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leeave96
quote:
Originally posted by BLT
If you have the seven digit product number (169XXXX)I can tell you what production year it was built for^
I took a look-see at my tractor, but the tag on the frame has peeled away and is no longer there. The only other idenifier that one could use to date the tractor is the engine code number and that is CH18S PS62513. I read on a forum post that those engines were used at least from 95 through 97. Edit: Here is a pic of the engine tag:


Edit - a closer look on the tag (by my weak eyes) I think shows the number 23 as the first number. Per the Kohler service manual I downloaded, that would make the engine a 1993 year make. Does anyone have the time line (or is there a sticky somewhere on the forums) that show the model, engine, etc for a given year? The good news is I am findng this tractor VERY simple to figure out. I'm going to try to change fluids, plugs, fuel lines, etc - while it sets on my trailer with the goal of DRIVING it off of the trailer - LOL! Thanks, Bill

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