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Allisgrandson

23 D quit running

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Allisgrandson
I bought a 23D last month that had been sitting who-knows-where for who-knows-how-long. I brought it back, replaced the carb, and got it running on my bench. I have been getting a few a few carbs rebuilt and testing them on the engine to make sure that they are good before I transplant the engine into an early B10. I have started and ran the engine a dozen times with no problem, until today. I was trying to start it on my bench, which consist of a wire connected to the ground on the engine on one end and the ground on the battery on the other and I touch the cut off cable that used to connect the battery to the starter before this engine was removed from the original tractor to the positive terminal. This time, however, the ground wire starts to smoke and melt the cover off. I stop, check everything, and try again. Same result. I look around and realize that a fuse on the back of this (Pic included: fuse and inside) melted. I jumpered the melted fuse with a piece of wire and it ran for another minute. It then quit and now there is no spark. What did I break? I guess another question would be, where is that original short that caused the burning wires and blown fuse? burnt fuse




interior

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dentwizz
Are you using the stock magneto setup? If you are, the battery and regulator should have little or nothing to do with it. It does however sound like a starter/generator internal problem. Have you tried rope starting it or starting via other means/units?

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Allisgrandson
I am using the stock magneto set up. The starter/generator had crossed my mind. I'll try swapping it out tomorrow. I only have one that I know is good, the other 3 tractors don't run and this is the first one I'm trying to get running. edit: The starter does work. It rotates the engine fast enough to start, just no spark at the spark plug Thanks for the info. Brian

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dentwizz
The thing to keep in mind is the starter/generator is a two aspect animal. The overheating regulator would possibly pertain to the generating aspect even if the starting portion was intact. I have had a couple where the starting windings were good and the generator portion was bad. On the spark topic, as is often stated, check the point contacts. While mine had the points/magneto it was very fickle about perfect contacts. That was why I converted to a modern Magnetron setup, which was not that hard other than obtaining a 10hp flywheel. The coil costs $25 brand new from the right vendor and once its done its done.

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Allisgrandson
@1liter - I think that i have a short rather than the poles touching. I didn't cross the wires with power applied. I am trying to take the flywheel off to check all the wires and coil, but it's stuck. @Dentwizz - The magnetron will replace the coil and points w/ just a new 10 flywheel? What's the verdict on the re-polarizing debate? I guess my confusion on TS'ing this is that it quit in the middle of running. A short in the generator will cause this to occur? Will this cause anything else to fry, such as the coil? Any pics on how to take apart and inspect the starter/generator/ I will be working on swapping out the starter/generator soon, time depending. Work and family keep me busy and away from breaking more stuff. thanks for everyone's help so far. I'm keeping an eye on the other thread about the Big Ten w/no spark also. I posted again because I thought that they were different, but the alternator seems to be the next step. Thanks again. brian

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dentwizz
The flywheel can be of early 243431(10hp) or later but the early ones will need to be repolarized to match the new system. You will additionally need a coil mount, but those are available on ebay and were used on anything from 10hp up(in the block series). It all bolts right on without modification. The only non-oem thing in the process is plugging the hole where the plunger for the points is. There are methods to do so, but the easiest one I have used is a bolt driven in and sealed. To remove the flywheel, patience is your friend. Heat the shaft hub of the flywheel with a torch til it's really good and hot, then spray PB-Blaster on it. Let it cool and try it again. A couple times and a little force on the puller and they usually pop right off. If it doesn't come with reasonable force, let it soak and do it again later. One I took off a junk deal took a few days of this before it came off but when it did it was easy. Beats shattering edges off.

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1Litre
Briggs had a metal plug in the maganatron kits and some dealers did not take the flywheel off and remove points etc... They just snapped on the unit and cut the wires to the points. Those dealers may have some sitting around in their tool box. JB weld epoxy would do it .

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dentwizz
When I converted mine I wanted to pursue a long term sustainable version, since the converter module kits are not as commonly found. The nice thing with the modern parts version is the coil is off the shelf integrated and no concern about internal wear/shorting down the line due to being already 40 yrs old(within reason) or corrosion in the interface connections.

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Allisgrandson
Many months later, I have progress. I replaced the pints and condenser with a Nova-II, and I got great spark back. I tested the starter/generators and voltage regulators on my running tractor and found a pair that worked. I set it all up, and the 23D started right up. I got it mounted in the tractor, and I was eventually able to get it to start. I am dealing with a flooding carb now. It ran well for 20 minutes sitting in my garage, but after 5 minutes of driving, it died and started leaking fuel out of the carb, and wouldn't start. It was too late to keep working, so i parked it and that's where I am right now. Is the needle in the early Flo-Jet carbs solid steel, or did they have a neoprene tip? I think the tab that contacts the needle from the float is closing also, but I'll have to check the gap. The other issue is that the key switch was removed and replaced by a button to kill the engine. one terminal is attached to ground, but I don't have the other terminal attached to anything. Where should this be attached to turn off the engine? Thanks for all of your help guys!

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JimH
Brian, Check the tech section and read the topic "Leaky Carb Fix", you may have fuel leaking past the emulsion tube.
quote:
Originally posted by Allisgrandson
Many months later, I have progress. I replaced the pints and condenser with a Nova-II, and I got great spark back. I tested the starter/generators and voltage regulators on my running tractor and found a pair that worked. I set it all up, and the 23D started right up. I got it mounted in the tractor, and I was eventually able to get it to start. I am dealing with a flooding carb now. It ran well for 20 minutes sitting in my garage, but after 5 minutes of driving, it died and started leaking fuel out of the carb, and wouldn't start. It was too late to keep working, so i parked it and that's where I am right now. Is the needle in the early Flo-Jet carbs solid steel, or did they have a neoprene tip? I think the tab that contacts the needle from the float is closing also, but I'll have to check the gap. The other issue is that the key switch was removed and replaced by a button to kill the engine. one terminal is attached to ground, but I don't have the other terminal attached to anything. Where should this be attached to turn off the engine? Thanks for all of your help guys!

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