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heron

97 Sunstar with 500 hr or 95 Deutz Allis 1918?

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heron
Both machines are original owner, meticulous shape. Sunstar has a 20HP command 500hrs Deutz has a 18HP Magnum 410hrs Both have 48" decks, both have been very well cared for, great maintenance, new blades, belts, no rust anywhere etc... Cannot see either in person but have spoke extensively to owners who seem very straight forward and honest. $1800 for the Deutz $2500 for the Sunstar I may end up with both and sell my 60" Sunstar since the deck is a bit big for my needs. I know lots of you will say it's high dollar but these machines look new and from the owners description that is the case. Any known issues with the Kohler Magnums that could present problems in the future? I realize the rest of the machine is identical except the deutz may have the diff lock where the sunstar does not.

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Brettw
I cannot comment on the pros and cons specifically of the two tractors you are looking at, but I will say this: We all tout how much better these good old solid iron tractors are above the big box landfill specials, yet we are all "cheapskates" when it comes to paying some real dollars for these quality units. Yes, they are used, and some are older and tired. But a good condition Sovereign or Sunstar, with relatively low hours are still, dollar for dollar, in my opinion, a much better value than the newer "lawn tractors". Bottom line: if these tractors are truly clean and low hour tractors, for the equivalent price, they exceed anything you can buy new. The other thing to consider, is they are worth fixing. The cheap stamped steel stuff offered today are, generally, throw aways. If they need any real repairs in excess of a $4-500, they aren't worth the expense. A $1000 or more repower on the good ol' stuff, will go for another 10 or better years, and still be a better unit than what you can buy for similar dollars today. Just MHO, but we are all touting the greatness of old iron, but start to question a $1500-2k tractor that is still a better unit than a brand new "tractor" of the same cost.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by MikeES
All of the 20hp tractors that I have seen have the diff lock as well as the 2-speed transaxle, and left and right brakes. The Magnums are very good engines.
... and power steering (20hp, option on 18hp) I copied this info a while back for my own reference distinguishing Sunstars - they aren't all the same. Sorry, no other details, except there were different paint schemes and decals roughly following the engine changes. And the diff lock, and other details that Mike ES mentioned were usually included with the 20hp package; but not the 18hp package; making the 20hp generally more desirable. 1986-1991 Magnum 1992-1995 Command 1996-1997 NO DIFF LOCK More: = Basic Sunstar Info from "History" in simpletractors LINK http://www.simpletractors.com/Main/history.htm#SunStar

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SmilinSam
Watching these sell at auction for years there are some things that make them valuable. People pay more money for machines that have: Simplicity paint Diff lock 60" deck Command engines The ones with: 48" decks Green paint Opposed twin magnums No diff lock ...Dont seem to bring as much. I have watched identical tractors, one with Simplicity colors and one with Duetz Green colors sell side by side at auction a number of times, and the Simplicity will always bring about 30% more money. This makes the Duetz the value if you are buying just to use. However, if you are buying as investment thinking of reselling down the road, the Simpliicity is the value. That unless you want to sandblast and repaint the Duetz. Around here, Sunstars that dont have the 60" deck are really not sought after by the buyers near as much as the ones with the 60" decks. The small decks see to work at killing a sellers prospects in this area. Here I think the prices those guys are asking with the small decks would be little hard to get. A little more realistic pricing would be Around $1000- $1400 and maybe $1400-$1800 Just my observations...

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acfarmer
I have a couple Sunstars with 48" decks on them and no problem.The late model 20HP Sunstars did NOT have differential supposedly had limited slip rear.Go to Lowes or Tractor Supply and see what you can bring home for $2000 either one of those tractors will wear out a bunch or what you can get at the box stores plus you'll be driving a 'Cadillac' all the while.

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heron
Sorry guys, should have been more clear.. I currently own a 97 Sunstar with a 20 command, 60" deck with 590hrs..no diff lock BTW. After my father in law used my Sunstar he wanted one. He is a Murray buying person and never understood why people pay so much for the better tractors until now. He has always bought throw away tractors even though he makes them last..which I really cannot believe b/c he is not mechanical and treats the mower rough. I'll be educating him on his new one. We may end up getting both and I may sell my 60" in exchange for one of these. I don't really need a 60" deck..just a bit too big for my area. Anyhow, I think the price for the deutz is in line and the sunstar is a bit much but the guy who is selling really has kept it up perfect..new deck rollers, belts, blades maintains it better than the book recommends which I why I even considered the higher price. So far the current crop of used tractors that are around what I paid for my tractor $1250 have very high hours, not original owner and seem be junk.

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jmhusby
Agree with the Farmer, no problems with the 48" deck although I wish I had a 60" for mine, could get closer to the trees. Like they say if you are buying to use and work them you pay what you feel they are worth to you. I don't know If I would go $1800 for the Deutz although it has the diff lock. Main thing with the Kohler in a Sunstar is to keep the grass off the fins and air intakes. Don't care for the way they set the Sunstar up for cooling. Kept clean and oil,etc. changed they will last a long time. Good luck.

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jmhusby
After re-reading your posts I would check into the Deutz being a 95 model. Mine is the Agco Allis version and from what I can find out it is not as new as 95. didn't think the Deutz version was around that long but if you can get numbers you should be able to verify it.

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jmhusby
quote:
Originally posted by ardisam
Hey John, do you wish you kept the 60 inch deck that you sold to me? It works really good under my Deutz Allis 1920.
Problem is with all the things in the shed I wouldn't have room to get it in there and don't want to build another one. Still in the market for a Sovereign with power steering if you ever come accross one.dOd

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MysTiK
Wow, $1250 was a steal. But this one at 2500 is at the high of price scale, unless he's also got the 3PH option plus a cat 1 conversion, and something to drag around with it. Needs to drop price. Wait for better deal, coming to your world soon....! sm01 If I were buying a Sunstar, I would want the deluxe w extra hot sauce. That's not about to happen in my price range; nor do I need those features - but the investment seems better protected with the 20 hp's. And methinks it would fit FEL too. But there's no investment in paid too much. I'd be waiting for mine. Or best offer. and yes, the box stores can match that price.... but don't expect dual brake, or anything resembling a tractor, etc. :D .... amazing. That's just a shocking reality check. 8) A lawn mower vs a compact tractor. :J

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heron
The Deutz may even be a 94 but the owner said he was with his dad when they bought it brand new in 95. I'm not really concerned that much with the year b/c I know it was always garaged, cleaned and maintained perfectly. And yes, I agree about the cooling setup. My father in law doesn't do much to his murray other than change the oil and he never cleans out under the deck, blows off the "cooling" area or anything. I actually am impressed how his has held up. These tractors definitely take more maintenance but I enjoy keeping them up. I grew up servicing heavy equipment with my grandfather and father...I was the "grease monkey" at 7 y/o having to get in all the tight spaces greasing up payloaders, dozers, shovels etc... We ran all the equipment hard but maintained it to the "T" and got many hours of service out of our quarry machines. This tractor will definitely make him appreciate the quality but I hope the added maintenance will not hinder his enjoyment of it...He'll have a lot to learn.

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jmhusby
Speaking of buying tractors I wish it wasn't so far to Michigan for me. There is a Sheridan Auction Service conducting an online auction of many Simplicities and Ingersolls. The 97 Sunstar and a Sovereign with power steering cought my eye. Not sure which engine the Sovereign has in it and because its to far away I didn't ask.XX(XX(

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