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leeave96

K341 into a Sovereign???

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leeave96
I've got a line on a 16hp Kohler K341 engine for cheap. My question is - will this engine swap into my Agco Allis 918H (aka: Sovereign) in place of the original Kohler Command CH18? What would be involved in this change over? BTW - I think the engine came out of a Cub Cadet. Thanks!!! Bill

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Brettw
It would depend on the pan on the K 341. There will likely be differences in the driveshaft length, possibly the throttle and choke cables, and electric connections. However, Sovereigns of the same platform as your 918 were produced using the K 341 engine, so it certainly is posible and could work, maybe even with little to no issues.

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MysTiK
I think it's the "spec number" on the engine that determines the pan dimensions, pullstart, electric start, oil drain plug location, oil dipstick, or lack of dipstick, or oil plug, and other differences. But there's lots of spec numbers; guessing about 20ish. If it's a Cub Cadet, you probably need to get the correct driveshaft adaptor. Make sure the dipstick fits in the frame, so you don't have to mod the frame, or cut a notch in it. K341's were used in a lot of different tractors. also generators. lots of stuff. :D if it doesn't work out for you, you could ship it prepaid to me near Belleville Canada, and I will gladly receive it, and install it in my 716-6 parts tractor. :D hmmmm, maybe I could cover the shipping for you. I'm waiting for Rokon to do a trip to Canada. :D I have also wondered if the newer Agco Allis is the same frame, engine compartment, etc. You probably know about different thicknesses of pans, and the use of steel plates below engine for purpose of height or angle modifications, etc. Another option is to buy a new pan; but that's probably way too expensive. I am very curious why you would swap a Command for an olde cast iron K-series. I think Commands are supposed to be really good motors. However, I also know that a hydro tractor really doesn't need much pony power since it's more about Sundstand Hydro power, and just keeping that spinning. interesting. and different. sm01

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sammiefish
I think what you are looking for is a K341S John Deeres and Cubs had a lot of the wrong type oil pan with the suffix K341 A or AQS... MF, wheel horse, and others used the S or standard oil pan. The appropriate oil pans come up frequently on the auction site...

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leeave96
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
I am very curious why you would swap a Command for an olde cast iron K-series.
Thanks! The Command is in need of a rebuild so I am doing a bit of patch work with the K341 (if I can get it) to get the tractor going until I can deal with the Command. Bill

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by leeave96
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
I am very curious why you would swap a Command for an olde cast iron K-series.
Thanks! The Command is in need of a rebuild so I am doing a bit of patch work with the K341 (if I can get it) to get the tractor going until I can deal with the Command. Bill
You are welcome. My pleasure! I thought perhaps you were going to revolutionize the industry.! Maybe I missed it, in my travels; but I have never seen a definitive list that offers exact details re "spec numbers" DIFFERENCES.
quote:
Originally posted by sammiefish
I think what you are looking for is a K341S John Deeres and Cubs had a lot of the wrong type oil pan with the suffix K341 A or AQS... MF, wheel horse, and others used the S or standard oil pan. The appropriate oil pans come up frequently on the auction site...
Thanks for that, sammiefish.

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Brettw
quote:
think Commands are supposed to be really good motors. However, I also know that a hydro tractor really doesn't need much pony power since it's more about Sundstand Hydro power, and just keeping that spinning.
I would think the Sundstrand's Hydro power is directly proportional to the HP input to it. Also, I would think it more important as a hydro is not as efficient as a gear driven tractor. The hydro's actually eat HP in comparison. That being said, hydro or not, there are still all of the attachments to power, and that is a whole 'nuther issue. Personally, I like the twin's. And a few more HP never hurts.:) IMHO

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MysTiK
EDITED I was also surprised when I encountered this info. It gets into big tek discussion; and I don't have links to the source right handy now; but I will see if I can get it again. The hydro doesn't know anything about the engine or it's h.p. The hydro needs to be spinning, and at a good rate. Hydros only need some 5-7 h.p. (roughly) (comparitively inefficient, as you said). And excess engine horsepower is used to spin blowers, tillers, etc., (also as you said). Yes, horsepower on reserve for esp. those attachments is needed. But the rest of it is the big lie associated with the proverbial "horsepower wars". If the hydro is spinning adequately, it will make it's own "power". Technically, omg I can't say this properly, a better word is torque, rather than power. And that might not be best word either. Basically, and simply, the hydro does not know anything about all this talk; it simply spins, and goes. There's also the word "pressure" that also is misused. Hydros relieve excess pressure, etc. with checkvalves, and fluid rerouting, recirculating, etc etc. It's too tekky for me to say it here. I will see if I can find the right info - it's a fascinating read. It's a lot of talk about "swash plates" and other inside workings of hydro itself. I'm off to find the info - it's a great discussion. This is essentially how a lower horsepower AC can blow away a high horsepower crapsman, etc. And it reveals "what a waste" as big box sells impressive horsepower that will never even make any difference - ultimately. Also - as a total nooby - when I first bought my 716Hydro tractor, trailer'd it home, started it up, went to prepare space in garage, etc. and left 716 running. It had a "reverse creep" problem. I came back to get the tractor, and it was jammed against the front of the trailer, facing rearward - and the back wheels were spinning, tractor stationary, because of the reverse creep - AT IDLE SPEED. I'm no expert; but I know that any idling engine is NOT putting out 16h.p. for sure. (Placing a hydro against a wall at idle, can do the same thing - don't do this without protection. Also, running a hydro at idle is destructive to the hydro itself.) B) But the real info has real tek info; not just little trix like this. (I will post when I find it). EDIT = FOUND THESE LINKS http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=109479 Also - very technical info here: http://www.edgeroamer.com/sweethaven/mechanics/hydraulics01/default.asp?iNum=0308 Lesson 3.8 Piston Pumps........ Figure 3-19 (diagram B) Apology - this info is Off Topic to original topic - and it can lead to a big discussion, which should probably be in a separate thread. These links will help anyone interested. I am not starting a new thread; someone else might. What I have said so far is mostly just how I think of it - not necessarily accurate. The tek part is over my head - this is FYI. = Sorry, don't want to hijack this thread. = sm01

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MysTiK
I actually considered that you might prefer the k341 - at first. And then I thought you could pawn the Command for $$$$. Sometimes my wonderful mind gets really creative. :D I am not sure if that would be called "thinking outside the box", or thinking with "my head in the box" (?) 4i Sometimes, I should be ignored. 8) I am sure some of you already knew that. sm00

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HubbardRA
Several people keep saying that he should look for a different oil pan. I think that some of you do not know that the Standard oil pans are not interchangeable with the oil pans that are used on Cub Cadets, Case, Fords, and maybe others. These engines are actually different castings with the bolt holes located differently. These engines also use different dippers( or slingers)on the connecting rods to throw the oil around inside the engine. I heard there were three different variations on the dippers. If someone made an adapter and actually changed the pans, they may have a catastrophic engine failure if the dipper hit the bottom of the pan. I have both Simplicity and Cub Cadet engines, so I am sure about the oil pan and block casting differences. I also have a way to mount the Cub Cadet style pan to a Simplicity frame. In fact I ran a Kohler from a Cub Cadet for a while on one of my tractors. Only reason I removed it was to go to a larger engine.

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