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MysTiK

Bleeding Briggs Intek 13.5 Struggle Starts

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MysTiK
The Intek 13.5 on my Simp "Pacer" WalkBehind MFR=1694494 34"Deck Hydro (circa 2002) is getting a little messy around too many gaskets in various locations - basically it is slightly "misting", leaking past what seems like most of the gaskets, evidenced by black deposits in various locations corresponding with gaskets, upper and lower areas of motor. The motor runs fine, a little "cough" periodically at idle, and doesn't like to idle for long without stalling; but will idle with slight throttle to keep it going. At anything over 1/2 throttle it runs fine, no cough, no smoke ever in the exhaust, oil consumption is minimal, power is good, gets the job done. Great striper!! Starting has become an issue. Battery seems low even after recharging. Batt cranks well at first, but then fades quickly. The only way I can start it now is on choke, and choke means full throttle cos the choke is integrated with the throttle. I am trying to baby the starter, doing short bursts, let it cool. But the starter hits, the engine turns over 1 or 2 revolutions and then it's stuck. Using choke, seems to create less compression, so the starter can push past the tuff spot (likely TDC compression). When cold it only needs a few spins to gogo, then no problem, but if I want to restart later, I still set it on choke, cos it seems easier on it. Then I drop the throttle to midrange, and it runs fine - except for the aforementioned "cough", about every 25 seconds or so - not noticeable at mowing speed. This has been happening since last year. I use premium gas. Have new air filter. Have new spark plug. Running SAE30 oil. I could pressure wash this oil mist away, and you'd never know - for a while. I think it needs a new breather. (never been done). I hear the breather is hiding underneath the flywheel???? omg!! 8) I am not about to go there - this, I believe, is an aluminum engine; and I have never pulled a flywheel. That's likely the cause of the "oil mist" thing around all the gaskets. (no actual leaks). I mentioned new air filter - from mowing leaves last fall, the old filter was really dusty (trashed it) - so that's new. Also vacuumed out the air box area. clean. The starting problem I tend to think is related to a possible ground wire not quite rightly making full contact. And it's complicated cos a bunch of wires come together at a motor mount (right rear), and then underneath this strange walker, there's another bolt for the batt ground to battery -ve as well. I had starts problems a couple years ago and was able to clean all the other wires (batt, solenoid, starter) but not these ground wires. That helped; but starting has been shaky ever since - but it never quit on me, as long as I use the choke. It used to start on idle! So I think I have to do these grounds at rear of motor and underneath, to really fix the 'low battery, poor start' syndrome. Charging is not the solution; and the mower itself is not maintaining charge. Only thing I have not tried is stealing the batt from the 716H (while he's not looking) 8) to rule out the Pacer's battery. And if the 716H can start w that battery with no issue, and keep it charged up, that would seal the deal. This one ground bolt, underneath, is horribly located }:) - maybe easy with air tools, which I don't have. I can get a wrench on it, but there's no room to push, seriously! (not just whining here B) So, huge post. I am kinda reporting, and kinda analyzing, my own problem. I wonder if you guys think I'm on the right track; or if you have any other ideas. But with little experience, and on an aluminum engine, I think I have to take it to the repair guy, get the ground fixed, get a breather installed. I think I could probably torque the bolts for the leaky gaskets myself - but it makes no sense without a new breather first. I don't want to tear the engine apart. I think the gaskets will pull through if I can delete the probable excessive crankcase pressure caused by dead or dying breather first. Through all this, this mower is currently (almost) good to go mow! Any comments? I can shoot pix if needed. Thanx.

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Al
HI, Does the engine come up on compression and then not go over, key off and key on and finally it will go over top center and maybe then crank? If so, the most common starting problem we see with Briggs, is that the tappets need to be set. When they get loose, the compression relief bump on the camshaft doesn't open the valve for the instant to dump some compression and the starter motor does not have the power to crank the engine without the compression relief working. Set the valves per the book spec including how far past TDC to go. On these engines always use the "tight" clearance and it almost always fixes the starting problems. Al Eden

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by Al
HI, Does the engine come up on compression and then not go over, key off and key on and finally it will go over top center and maybe then crank? = YES = If so, the most common starting problem we see with Briggs, is that the tappets need to be set. When they get loose, the compression relief bump on the camshaft doesn't open the valve for the instant to dump some compression and the starter motor does not have the power to crank the engine without the compression relief working. Set the valves per the book spec including how far past TDC to go. On these engines always use the "tight" clearance and it almost always fixes the starting problems. Al Eden
Again, as usual, wow, Al. Quite a while ago I heard these Intek engines had some problem with a compression relief mechanism that would eventually go south or break or something like that. The idea was scary cos I thought something to do with all that would break loose and trash the engine - incomplete, inaccurate information gone haywire. One thing I did not mention is the engine has taken on a definite tick sound that I thought was tappets. I actually mentioned adjusting tappets to the Simp dealer's mechanic, and he looked at me like I had four heads, seemingly discouraging the idea. So that would kill a couple of birdeez with one well placed stone. Thanks. I actually did a little reading on the Briggs site on adjusting tappets /valve clearances, and it seemed to indicate a need for some special tools, a spring compressor, or similar; which I don't have. I'm still pretty hesitant to indulge in motor mechanics - plus I need the mower ready to go, so if I mess up it's trouble. I think it would be great to have a completely blown engine to mess with just so I could practice advanced engine surgery. This engine is still very good despite the relative neglect it has received; and I don't want to indulge in excess worry. I can do nuts and bolts and adjustments and little tweaks on the tractor, much like I used to with my dirt bike; but it was the same there - I drew the line at playing with a Honda 500 single - but I rebuilt the running gear, brakes, swing arm, fork oils, suspension little mods, etc front to back - had to - I rode it pretty hard and kept crashing every time I hit the trails. And all that was on my time, no rush. :D The only motor work I did on the bike was on a camchain tensioner that finished with tightening a 'castle nut' - don't ever over-tighten one of those - the wisdom of 20/20 hindsight. B) Thanks, Al. Made my day+ !!!! sm01 And some little mysteries resolved.

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Al
Hi, The only tools you should need are a feeler guage and and tools to remove the valve cover. A wrench to remove the spark plug and the allen wrench to fit the adjuster screw in the rocker arm and wrench to fit the lock nut On this engine, I believe you find top dead center on the compression stroke. Put a wire in the spark plug hole and turn the flywheel cw until the piston goes down about 1/4 inch. At this point set the clearance of the rocker arms. I believe it is .004 to .006. If you want it to start easy set them at .004. Check these numbers, but from my feeble mind these numbers seem to come from the fog. Al Eden

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1Litre
Another hard starting problem can be the magneto coil assembly is not at the proper distance from the flywheel magnet. Gap at .015" minimum. Spark plug gap should be .030" minimum and that helps . The short duration for cranking can be the battery is not performing or more common with briggs starters is cracked magnets in the housing. You can epoxy them together and add some epoxy to the back of the magnet to bond it to the housing. The brushes wear down with use and begin to rock on edge eventually cracking the brush holder.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by Al
Hi, The only tools you should need are a feeler guage and and tools to remove the valve cover. A wrench to remove the spark plug and the allen wrench to fit the adjuster screw in the rocker arm and wrench to fit the lock nut On this engine, I believe you find top dead center on the compression stroke. Put a wire in the spark plug hole and turn the flywheel cw until the piston goes down about 1/4 inch. At this point set the clearance of the rocker arms. I believe it is .004 to .006. If you want it to start easy set them at .004. Check these numbers, but from my feeble mind these numbers seem to come from the fog. Al Eden
Checking manuals - owner/ops fits nicely in the "just about useless" category, valve clearance absent from "regular maintenance" list. Engine manual - has 'Tune-up Specs' Armature air gap = 0.010 - 0.014" (I think that's what 1Liter mentioned) Spark plug gap = 0.030" Valve Clearance, valvesprings installed, piston 1/4" past TDC, Cold. = Intake = 0.003-0.005" = Exhaust = 0.005-0.007" So, to set these TIGHT, I would use: Intake = .003" Exhaust = .005" DOES THE COMPRESSION RELIEF WORK ON BOTH VALVES? or just one? intake or exhaust? I would guess exhaust? since intake would blow fuel back to carb? Also, I don't get the "wire in the spark plug hole" trick? What's that about? I understand 1/4" past TDC. Is there a marker, or a line, etc? Or is the wire thing just to feel the piston move a little? Like the wire would move a 1/4" with the piston? Both valves should be closed at TDC, and still closed at 1/4" past TDC, and beyond that too I believe. So is the 1/4" really that critical? Or will I blow up my world if I do this wrong? 8):D. Too funny. Never mind just do it. I hear it's really easy if you're careful. The manual gives these specs; but no other instructions. I guess it's for people who really know what they are doing, huh. It does give a reference to a repair manual part# 272147.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by 1Litre
Another hard starting problem can be the magneto coil assembly is not at the proper distance from the flywheel magnet. Gap at .015" minimum. Spark plug gap should be .030" minimum and that helps . The short duration for cranking can be the battery is not performing or more common with briggs starters is cracked magnets in the housing. You can epoxy them together and add some epoxy to the back of the magnet to bond it to the housing. The brushes wear down with use and begin to rock on edge eventually cracking the brush holder.
1Litre, thanks for great info. I don't think the machine is resistant to starting, the problem is more about cranking. I'm hoping the starter is still ok. Also the other stuff I mentioned, like breather, is still on the agenda, for now. And I might need to replace a whole set of gaskets, or some, it depends. I bought a new feeler gauge today; ones I had were all too big. I have a couple that are very unusual also - thinking of posting a what's this thread. Anyway, I plan on "boldly going where I have never gone before" later this week, starting with valve clearances. One of the things with this particular Pacer "application" of the BnS engine is the shroud and a few non-typical items attached to it. Been trying to find the actual repair manual online; that isn't working out. but apparently it's similar, been superceded, to a vanguard single manual. (272147 supercedes to 276781) repair manual. Quite a difference with Kohler offering free manuals, and BnS offering full retail. You buys the tractor you gots to buys the manual? yes i'm cheap. and I love Kohler. and BnS online info is severely limited and lacking detail - oh, but they do recommend you contact an authorized repair outlet. dark side of monopoly, to me. I don't know how some of the experts here do it; but this lil nooby is kinda being pretty careful. I also wonder what brigg is doing by offering readers online a chance to rate how helpful the info is - many articles are rated majority "not helpful". funny thing. Even as a non club member here, I have already been given more info that what I got at the brigg site. and the cost of full membership is cheaper than the cost of one repair manual for the tractor I bought - actually it's just the engine repair manual. amazing. 8) Who ya gonna call? :D You guys are amazing. :D I'm coming your way. :D

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by Al
Hi, The wire is the measuring stick to see the piston moves down the 1/4". This is memory, but I think it is right. Has to do with the grind of the cam. Al Eden
Understood. briggs said a small screwdriver instead. same idea. and 1/4" is correct, and common with other engines too (as if you didn't know) 8D Grind of the cam - yes, I thought about that too, thinking shape of cam lobes - those words. I understand the theory - that's what I'm good at. Doing it is another thing. I was wondering about how tight, or torque when it's set. but I think I will just feel it. I have learned to hold wrench in a position of less mechanical advantage, to avoid breaking things, while tightening. Don't ask how I learned that. But I worry about it all shaking loose - I suppose I can feel it when loosening it also. I will know more when I get there. this is a ten minute job that will probably take me hours. won't happen until after mowing later this week. Got a nice new feeler gauge from napa. It's got all the sizes and lots more. It's gonna be fun. I have wanted to do this for a long time. sm03

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