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CurtWinebrenner

Kohler k310 won't start

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CurtWinebrenner
Folks, I've a simplicity 7012h with the K310 Kohler and I'm at wits end. It has no spark at the plug. I've replaced the coil, points, plug, coil wire, condenser, battery (which was dying anyway, new solenoid, new wire where the old was in rough shape and after everything, I can't get any spark. This has been going on for 3 weeks and I'm about to shoot it like an old calvary officer would shoot his injured horse. Does anyone have any experience with a similar problem? I'm open to ALL suggestions. I know the coil is good, it's the third new one I've put on, thinking well, it's possible the other two were bad... but anyway, I still don't have spark and I've even tried 4 other plugs, all new and no spark. It turns over like a champ, the points are energized and I've checked continuity on every wire going to and from the coil, battery, dash...you name it, I've checked it. I'm praying someone can give me an answer. Thanks in advance.

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MysTiK
There aren't many safety nanny's but there's one in the hydro stick - gotta push left slightly to connect the switch. I forgot about this first thing this spring, recharged battery, thought it was dead, finally remembered to push the hydro control left - zoom zoom. sm03 Like yours, everything was good to go. Just my best guess...

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ssmewing
Would the shear pin cause this? If it is out wack being a little sheared. Other than that look at a wiring diagram. Start from where the power comes into the ignition switch and check that power is making it thru every point it is supposed to. I myself have preferred tracing from the start. That also gives you an understanding of what has to happen to get power to the coil.

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CurtWinebrenner
Guys, thanks for the info. I'm going to check what I can right now but I'd like to ask for some clarification. sammiefish, how do I check to see if the switch is grounding to off? I can tell you that whether I have it in the dash and secured with the nut or hanging out, I don't have spark. The switch "appears" to have power where it should. Mystik, I'm going to double check the hydro stick, the motor turns over so the safety should be working properly but I'll double check it anyway. Lastly, ssmewing, where would this shear pin be that could cause it not to start? I'm about to print a new wiring diagram so I can trace things again.

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1Litre
I have had some tough ones like this and usually it it is coincidence double problem. Like you replaced the condenser but I have had bad new condensers and spark plugs. Have you cleaned the points? New points could be contaminated. Take clean white heavy weight paper and place between the points when closed. slide it about 1/8" to 3/16" . Open points and remove the paper and you may see what is on there. See if you get spark then. Are points open and closing? Will they open .020" ? Is condenser on - neg terminal on coil? Check connection on the engine harness to the chassis harness. I have seen the terminals burned up in the connectors. You could remove the wire at the points and touch it to ground quickly with the key on. As soon as you stop grounding the wire you should get one spark. Then you know your voltage feed , coil and condenser . work.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by CurtWinebrenner
Guys, thanks for the info....... Mystik, I'm going to double check the hydro stick, the motor turns over so the safety should be working properly but I'll double check it anyway.......
Mine will OCCASIONALLY turn over even when I forget to hold the hydro lever to the left, and in NEUTRAL position. You can also assist the starter, and it is recommended, to fully depress the Brake/Clutch pedal, on the right side, to DISENGAGE THE TRANS - this makes for faster rotation, when starting - also use FULL CHOKE, and 1/4 to 1/3 THROTTLE. Also make sure the GAS SHUTOFF is OPEN or ON. (presumes gas is fresh, and fuel line is clear). = Warning = don't kill the starter due to overheating - crank for 5 seconds, wait a half a minute, repeat. If no start after repeats, you should at least smell gas getting through.

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SmilinSam
A: Safety circuits have nothing to do with no spark at the plug. B: A kohler K 301 is BAttery ignition. the ignition gets powered by the battery through the "I" terminal of the KEYSWITCH. The flywheel, or speed it turns has nothing to do with the ignition on these. With a voltage tester, check the wire from the keyswitch at the coil and see if its showing 12 volts with the key in the "on" position. ( or do what Willy suggested above) If no voltage then your keyswitch is likely bad or the wire is bad somewhere. If you have voltage, then your problem is either in the points/condensor, coil, or plug iteself. Next would be to check for spark at the plug with a spark tester, or take the plug out and with it still connected to the coil, set it against a good ground source on the engine and crank the engine to see if it generates a spark. However a good spark tester works best. If no spark using the plug method try another plug to be sure, or if no spark with tester, start looking at the points and make sure they are adjusted , clean, and flat. Just methodiacally work your way through the system. I dont know how one checks a coil. Since you have replaced most everything, I would look at the keyswitch first.

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Al
HI, Take a test light and ground one lead, turn on the ignition switch and put the other lead on the plus side of the coil. If it lights you have power to the coil. Next move the light to the minus or point side of the coil. Turn the engine over in start mode. The light should come on and go off as the engine turns over. If it doesn't, the points may not be closing. To check if the point are the problem, turn the engine until the points are open and then take a screwdriver etc and ground the moving arm of the points. This should put the light out is the system is working properly. If not to check this disconnect the wire from the negative terminal of the coil and connect one lead of the test light to the Plus terminal of the battery and the other lead to the wire removed from the minus side of the coil. Turn the engine over and the light should flash as the engine turns over. If it is lit all of the time, you have a short on this circuit. With the light connected, if the light is on reach down and open the points. If the light stays on, I would disconnect the condenser, if the light goes off when the points are opened, then the condenser is shorted. If the light stays on with the condenser disconnected, there has to be something shorted at the points. Sometimes the little spade terminals get bent around the flat spring on the points, or pinched someplace between the points and coil. Be sure the point (flat) spring isn't pushed under the insulator. On the very first test, if the light never goes out, for some reason the points aren't making. Check that the wire terminal is under the screw and is contacting the (flat) spring on the points. Next run some thing through the points business card etc. If the light still won't go out. Take a small screwdriver etc and go directly from the moving arm of the points to the block or some ground. The light should go out. If it does, there is a problem with the points making contact. If not, go to the minus terminal of the coil and take a piece of wire and go from the block to the minus terminal and the light should go out. If it does, there is an open in the wire from the coil to the points. IF the light is flashing properly in the first test and there is no spark, remove the spark plug wire and measure it. If it is wire should measure about 1 or 2 ohms. If it is a carbon wire it should measure in the neighborhood of 10.000 ohme. If it much higher that this, the carbon wire has been burned away inside the wire. Try a wire wire and see if that don't fix it. This is how I would approach this. However the first thing I would do is use a test plug and then use a substitute plug wire. Next I would use the test light. Once you get a clear picture of what you are trying to do, you can check out the whole system in a couple of minutes. If any of this is confusing, yell and I'll try to clarify it for you. I prefer a light to a meter, because it is very quick and you can lay the light down and just go. If you use a meter it is much slower to read. Al Eden

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SmilinSam
Nuetral safety circuits only prohibit the engine from starting by cutting the power to the starter solenoid and keep the engine from turning over to start, which was what was being discussed above Seat safety switches and low oil shut down switches, now those will kill the spark to the engine and sut it off while running. However, a 7012 tractor does not have either of those as I recall.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by SmilinSam
Nuetral safety circuits only prohibit the engine from starting by cutting the power to the starter solenoid and keep the engine from turning over to start, which was what was being discussed above Seat safety switches and low oil shut down switches, now those will kill the spark to the engine and sut it off while running. However, a 7012 tractor does not have either of those as I recall.
Thx for reply SSam. I agree, a correction was required. I get it now. Thx for accurate info. 8D dOd

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Al
Hi, Regarding safety switches. If the tractor turns over and is getting 12 volts to the coil (on a battery ignition) All of the safety switches are working. If you are NOT getting 12 volts to the coil, then you need to work backwards until you find the problem which MAY be a safety switch. When I start going back, I look at the diagram and decide where 1/2 way is and make a check at this point. Then I know if the problem is before or after this point. Then I go half way from there. Then I know which 1/4th it is in. This saves so much time when trouble shooting. If it is confusing, start at the coil and work backwards one step at a time. If you are working with a magneto ignition tractor and it turns over with no spark, Disconnect the Kill wire from the engine. If you still have no spark, the problem is in the engine, and not the safety switches. Al Eden

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CurtWinebrenner
Hi guys; I've been working a ton of overtime and haven't had a minute to try all the stuff you nice folks have provided. I actually had to pay a guy to come in and mow my acre and that was painful. Hopefully, I'll get some time here this week to see if I can get it going. Al, for you especially, I have taken a few steps in your testing method and I'm at the points, which are new. I turned the motor over with the front shaft and my points are open at least a 1/16th of an inch and that certainly ain't .20! So, I'm going to proceed from a point adjustment and see if that does the trick. I do have spark at the wire that runs from the coil but the points don't arc. I'm hoping that they are the problem and that they aren't one of several. Again, thanks for all of you, I have printed every piece of advice you folks have given me and it's now in my manual notebook for reference and further action. I'll post and let you all know the progress. I'm telling you, if this was a horse from the calvary days of the army, I'd shoot it! But since it's 41 years old and deserves a little respect, it will (hopefully) continue it's long and productive life.

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1Litre
I think you found the problem. If the points are open that far thay may not close and energize the coil. Get the gap down to spec and your spark should return. Good Luck

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