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jsarro

Belt sizing and breaking belts? (Pics)

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jsarro
I need help pointing me to a reference or manual where I can figure out what belts are used for the specific attachments on my tractors. I need to know what belt is called for my 48" mower on my Sovereign pictured below, and if I can buy it locally. I need to cut my grass!


Thank you for the help, I am new at this.

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PhanDad
Here's a page with the 48" decks listed: http://simpletractors.com/what_fits/rotary_lawn_mowers.htm I'm guessing you have a mfg #990669 deck. EDIT-BAD GUESS, this deck has a special multi V cross drive belt. If so, the cross drive belt is #108854. The arbor drive belt is #108450. I'm not sure if the other FDT decks use the same belts. The attachment parts manuals are available at the Simplicity manual site but you need to know the mfg# of the attachment. That's where the Simpletractors "what fits" page comes in. It list all the various attachments and mfg numbers: http://simpletractors.com/Main/what_fits.htm

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jsarro
Thanks for all the help from everyone. I had a hard time trying to find the belt from the text only charts everyone has referenced. I measured with a string the from the tractors middle PTO hook up to around the central top pulley on the 48" deck. That distance came out to 48". None of the belts I found on the charts were close to that length. I went on Jack's Small engine and looked up my tractor by model and year, and found the mower deck diagram under attachments.


Part (AL) took me to the link below: http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Parts-Lookup/248045/55000/ps This is a 45" belt which would seem to be the right length to have tension on the belt. Does this look like I solved this properly, and why could I not find the right belt from the charts? I feel like I must have used the charts improperly because they should have led me to the same place?

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MysTiK
Is there a Simplicity dealer near you? Measuring with a string is an approximation, of course. The problem is the string sinks very deeply into the V-part of the pulley. A thicker rope would yield a better approximation. Having said that, the length of 45" that you mentioned is probably more accurate than the thin string. It might do the trick. A Kevlar belt is better. Many will tell you a Simplicity belt is built to last. No description on the one you mentioned. (?) You will know when you get mowing. sm01. I would tend to follow Phandad's info; assuming you have the original deck. If this belt doesn't work out, it should be possible to ship a Simp belt. I messed with a bunch of belts once, 3 in a month - they were cheap automotive junk; finally bought the simp belt, counting years now, instead of belts. Having said that, there are some good alternatives - good luck with it. Price seems reasonable.

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MysTiK
One other thing, belt tension is pretty much a function of the idler pulleys that pull against the belt. You really don't want a stretchy belt, nor do you want to try to stretch a belt to force the issue. That could cause excess pulley wear, and those aren't cheap. I am assuming the FDT's are similar to the RBT's in that the belt is tensioned by idlers - I find often such assumptions are simply incorrect. I think this is a fair assumption for this case however. I think you'll be fine, Jack.

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PhanDad
Bad mfg# guess on my part above. The deck I referenced above has a special multi V cross drive belt that is 45" long. You probably have a mfg #990502 deck. I got that mfg # from the rotary mower page from the "what fits" page: http://simpletractors.com/what_fits/rotary_lawn_mowers.htm Then you go to the club home page: http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/portal_content.asp put the mfg# in the box at the top right of the page and you get a link to the Operators and Parts manual for the mfg #990502 deck: http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/default.aspx?filename=heCBEN8arF1rE3Cvh5kbp796Dq This shows the same parts schematic you found at Jack's. The cross drive belt is 45.1" long so you measurement was right on.

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jsarro
OK guys here is where it gets fun! I put the new mower belt on as depicted below.




It seems to fit like a charm. I pulled up on the PTO lever to approximate the two pulleys and the belt slipped right on with what seems like appropriate tension. Then I went mowing. I engaged the PTO, and everything seemed great for a few minutes and passes on the front lawn. It was cutting like no bodies business. Then I heard an awful sound, and found I had shredded the main PTO belt. The belt that goes around the three pulleys and guide bar on the side.




So I looked up that belt. It is depicted as (R) in the diagram below.


I am going to go get this new belt, but did I do something wrong? The belt still seems strong, but something caused it to shred? I wanted to get this posted, and hope for an answer before I tear up a new belt! Thanks

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MysTiK
sm01 How tall WAS the grass? The 48 deck is really cool; it's like a clippings processor, what goes under will fly; I kinda like the 'delay' effect. :D Glad you worked out yer belt thing; wha' happen'd ?

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by PhanDad
Bad mfg# guess on my part above. The deck I referenced above has a special multi V cross drive belt that is 45" long. You probably have a mfg #990502 deck. I got that mfg # from the rotary mower page from the "what fits" page:
Thanks for pointing me on how to get to the deck manual. This looks really helpful. I appreciate it.dOd

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
Is there a Simplicity dealer near you? A Kevlar belt is better. Many will tell you a Simplicity belt is built to last. Price seems reasonable.
No simplicity dealer super close by. The one I did call several times did not seem interested in looking up parts for an old tractor. They seem to only deal in shiny new ones. I bought three belts today and snapped two. The first belt I shredded was the existing PTO belt, appeared to be fabric. I replaced it with a 34" Sten's fabric type belt. The new 45" Sten's fabric PTO to mower deck belt I snapped in half after backing up on the edge of my woods and hitting a pretty big rock. I replaced this with a belt from TSC called Huskee, it is Kevlar. I don't know the difference's here on these belts. I did figure out TSC had much better prices on belts than my local power equipment store.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
sm01 How tall WAS the grass? The 48 deck is really cool; it's like a clippings processor, what goes under will fly; I kinda like the 'delay' effect. :D Glad you worked out yer belt thing; wha' happen'd ?
The grass was 6" tall. I did get it all mowed after ruining two different belts today. The mower is awesome though. It was like a wind tunnel. It is a cutting machine. I was getting the hang of the procedure by the end of my session. Remembering to disengage the PTO, and to not over raise the hydrolift, as the deck bar will put too much pressure on the belt. I did learn a ton today about my machine, and no one got hurt. Thanks for the help!sm01

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huffy
Jack: I've found that I can usually get belts cheaper at an auto parts store than TSC or other places (though it depends on the store), and certainly much cheaper than through my local Simplicity dealer (which gouges people for everything). Once you know the size you need (such as 5/8 x 45,etc) just tell the auto parts clerk and they'll generally have one.

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jsarro
Here is the PTO belt replacement. It was a 34" fabric belt. I am not exactly sure why it shredded?


Yes Graham, the idler pulley on this tractor does also apply tension on PTO engagement, same as yours.


This is the belt guide bracket on the top of the pulley re installed. This also seems to function to help unlock the seat in some fashion. I wondered if this may have dropped to close to the pulley shredding the belt?




In the end I am not exactly sure why this PTO belt shredded. It either rubbed on something, or I did something in my inexperience to stress it out? Later on after fixing the PTO belt, I snapped in half my brand new 45" PTO to deck pulley belt. I hit a fairly large rock in reverse backing out of the edge of the woods. I don't know if it snapped immediately or if in a panic I raised the hydro lift too high without disengaging the PTO, thus putting heavy tension on the deck belt while it was engaged. Fortunately nothing else appeared to be damaged with the rock incident. I felt bad about it. I learned a lot about my tractor today. I got my first mowing in and found the cheapest place to buy belts now. I will be keeping extras on hand.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by huffy
Jack: I've found that I can usually get belts cheaper at an auto parts store than TSC or other places (though it depends on the store), and certainly much cheaper than through my local Simplicity dealer (which gouges people for everything). Once you know the size you need (such as 5/8 x 45,etc) just tell the auto parts clerk and they'll generally have one.
Awesome I will try that. Thank You!

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by huffy
Jack: I've found that I can usually get belts cheaper at an auto parts store than TSC or other places (though it depends on the store), and certainly much cheaper than through my local Simplicity dealer (which gouges people for everything). Once you know the size you need (such as 5/8 x 45,etc) just tell the auto parts clerk and they'll generally have one.
Awesome I will try that. Thank You!
The belts I broke 3 of them in a month, and 1 lasted a day, were from a NAPA auto parts store. I don't do auto parts store belts. I only use Simplicity belts. The only other I consider is something Kevlar, and I just hear they are strong - have not tried them. I don't know if Simp belts are kevlar or what - I do know simp belts have a near indestructible backing on them; this I learned from my transmission drive belt. Original belt, trashed, still working. That's only 33 yrs. That's why I buy Simp belts. I kinda figure maybe Simplicity knew something about these tractors. I just pay the price and forget about it. Having said that, there probably are some belts at various outlets that are good quality strong belts. but they aren't called 'auto parts' belts - maybe some brand is good. Lately with gas prices and all, I like to do one stop shopping. That's not always easy. And I hate when things break on weekends. My trans belt is my next project. I should frame it. Or hang it up on the wall in my garage. as a spare. :D

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MysTiK
Wow, Jack, that was a pretty rough day. I don't know if it would help; but I am thinking pto engagement. I always feed mine in very slowly. I finally got the feel of it so I know just where it starts to spin and where it fully grabs. Did you hit the rock with the blades? I just hate that clatter clang noise. Especially when it's followed by spindle damage. I did that when I mowed a surprise inch thick steel cable. My next door neighbour, omg, this guy cuts his rough uneven lawn at about 3 millimeters tall, once a month whether it needs it or not. For an hour or two all you hear is rrrrrippp, hackkkk, and other unpronounceable sounds. His deck must be a joke. He doesn't stop for anything. Just scrambles through stuff. Sometimes he tries it a second or third or fourth time. He got a new mower this year. :D Or maybe his mom did. I heard him mowing, and heard his mom yelling at him. Next thing she was doing the mowing. She's better; but all they need to do is increase the mowing height. Totally amazing. Now I am watching how long an Ariens lasts. Actually, they trailer it in for the mow, so it's borrowed or shared. Very strange. I never talk to these people. I tried. It's kinda strange. They always wave when they are leaving in their car tho. sm03 I think they live in perpetual seniors moments or something. I always mow the shared part by the road, at about 3" tall. Then they mow it down to gravel. dz :D Yeh, it's funny; but dangerous. I usually hide if I can. OO

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midnightpumpkin
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by huffy
Jack: I've found that I can usually get belts cheaper at an auto parts store than TSC or other places (though it depends on the store), and certainly much cheaper than through my local Simplicity dealer (which gouges people for everything). Once you know the size you need (such as 5/8 x 45,etc) just tell the auto parts clerk and they'll generally have one.
Awesome I will try that. Thank You!
The belts I broke 3 of them in a month, and 1 lasted a day, were from a NAPA auto parts store. I don't do auto parts store belts. I only use Simplicity belts. The only other I consider is something Kevlar, and I just hear they are strong - have not tried them. I don't know if Simp belts are kevlar or what - I do know simp belts have a near indestructible backing on them; this I learned from my transmission drive belt. Original belt, trashed, still working. That's only 33 yrs. That's why I buy Simp belts. I kinda figure maybe Simplicity knew something about these tractors. I just pay the price and forget about it. Having said that, there probably are some belts at various outlets that are good quality strong belts. but they aren't called 'auto parts' belts - maybe some brand is good. Lately with gas prices and all, I like to do one stop shopping. That's not always easy. And I hate when things break on weekends. My trans belt is my next project. I should frame it. Or hang it up on the wall in my garage. as a spare. :D
I buy nothing but NAPA belts. You have to get the ones rated for 17HP. The 1/2 x 45 inch belt is NAPA number 4L450W the W on the end of the part number is critical, otherwise it is a fractional HP rated belt. [url]http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NBH4L450W_0376157586[/url] John U

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gwiseman
Probably an old cracked & worn belt. The idler pulley out of allign can cause belt failure. Take a look when running the pto/mower. I used couple flat washers to adjust one of mine. As for belts I prefer Simplicity but run a lot of Gates green ones b/c they always break on a weekend or after hrs & I take the quick fix.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by midnightpumpkin I buy nothing but NAPA belts. You have to get the ones rated for 17HP. The 1/2 x 45 inch belt is NAPA number 4L450W the W on the end of the part number is critical, otherwise it is a fractional HP rated belt. [url]http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=NBH4L450W_0376157586[/url] John U
Thanks John, I will check that out.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by gwiseman
Probably an old cracked & worn belt. The idler pulley out of allign can cause belt failure. Take a look when running the pto/mower. I used couple flat washers to adjust one of mine.
Thanks, I will take a look at that.

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toomanytractors
I was told by a Simplicity dealer once that the last guy in the chain to get the tractor when they were designed was the guy who figured out the belts. If you pay attention to the length you'll see that Simplicity belts are measured in one tenth inch increments. Automotive belts are usually made in half inch increments. Okay, so you think "what difference is two tenths of an inch going to make??" The answer: PLENTY!! I am not familiar with the technical content of the proper belts except to know they're made to run on a twist and at 180 degree angles. Yes, you have to swallow hard when you fork over enough to buy the right belt but the alternative has always been more expensive in the long run. The only places I've ever had any success with automotive belts were on the starter generator and the clutch belt on the old 3 belt snowblower.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
Wow, Jack, that was a pretty rough day. I don't know if it would help; but I am thinking pto engagement. I always feed mine in very slowly. I finally got the feel of it so I know just where it starts to spin and where it fully grabs. Did you hit the rock with the blades? I just hate that clatter clang noise. Especially when it's followed by spindle damage. I did that when I mowed a surprise inch thick steel cable. My next door neighbour, omg, this guy cuts his rough uneven lawn at about 3 millimeters tall, once a month whether it needs it or not. For an hour or two all you hear is rrrrrippp, hackkkk, and other unpronounceable sounds.
It was a rough day. Newbie green issues! The good news I kept getting back on the horse until I felt I succeeded with the mower. I will check the idler alignment, and more gently engage the PTO. I have been clutching on PTO engagement, I assume that is right? I don't know if it matters? Can I disengage the PTO without the clutch? I am pretty sure I banged around the rocks pretty hard. I think the belt snapped as protection against further tractor damage. I believe Kent mentioned something about this in one of our conversations. Now that I am using a 48" deck in place of a standard size walk behind, I view my landscape and planting beds in a different light. I told my wife no more rocks on borders and edges. We need to account for more clearances now. I shined a flashlight under the deck. The blades appear intact. When I spin one blade they all spin as usual. I seemed to be able to cut the rest of the lawn without issue and no unusual noises. Is there anything I need to check for now with spindles? Should I pull the deck off, given the trauma? I do need to raise the deck. I believe it is in the lowest setting. Do I just turn the deck handles clockwise to raise the height, or is there something else? The difference between your neighbor and me, is I am going to learn from my mistakes. BTW very funny neighbor stories, although it is gory hearing that damage. I was horrified when I hit that rock.sm06sm06sm06

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