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JimH

HB-212 Won't Start

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JimH
Finally got my HB-212 back together and cannot get it to start. I converted to magnatron ignition and I have spark. I rebuilt the carb and I have the dredded drip at the bottom of the intake tube. Possibly the seat needs to be polished again so the needle seats better. I set the float slightly below what is recommended. Gas does not seem to be getting past the carb. Even tried a shot of ether and nothing. Could I have missed something obvious? Your thoughts please? Thank's in advance. Jim.........

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JimH
Yes Dave had our friends at Briggs "recharge it" as they put it. Will try another plug as Bob suggested.
quote:
Originally posted by DaveTenney
Did you have the flywheel repolarized? If not, that is your problem. You will need to send it back to briggs and they will do the service for free. Dave

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JimDk
JimH, Do you have valve clearance? .009" intake, .018 exhaust. Is your head gasket sealing? Just a couple of problems that I've had with Briggs engines that cause low, or no compression. Jim D

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JimH
Hi Jim, This tractor was running perfect when I got it 3 years ago. Good compression, no smoke and no leaks. The only thing I have done is tore it completely down, cleaned and painted. I switched to magnatron ignition and had the flywheel re-polarized. I have good spark. I rebuilt the carb which I have done many of. On this one though the seat is permanent so I polished it up. I still have a drip which it had when I got it. I think I need to polish the seat again so the new needle seats better. Although I could have gas seeping from somewhere else possibly. I hate it when I can't change the seat on these carbs. Like I said in my post it does not seem like it's getting gas past the carb. Gona look at the carb again. Wish me luck? Jim......
quote:
Originally posted by JimDk
JimH, Do you have valve clearance? .009" intake, .018 exhaust. Is your head gasket sealing? Just a couple of problems that I've had with Briggs engines that cause low, or no compression. Jim D

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rokon2813
Jim, try checking your compression first, if it sat 3 years a valve may be sticking open. Just spin the crank up against the compression stroke by hand. If it bounces back it should have enough compression to run. Then I would check the 3 gaskets between the carb and engine. If it has been apart, one may be leaking so it is sucking air instead of gas. You can also dribble a little gas right in the spark plug hole and see it it fires that way.

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JimH
I have narrowed my problem down to spark timing. After talking with the mechanic where I work part time, he is saying that eventhough I have spark, it is not at the proper time. We have concluded this by the fact that when I put gas in the spark plug hole and I am not getting a pop of any kind. I will pull the shield and see where the magnatron is lined up with the flywheel. I know there is an arrow on the flywheel magnent and I thought I had it set where it was supposed to be, but maybe not. Anyone had problems with this when they converted to magnatron.

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powerking_one
Did you put in the Magnetron module retrofit one (clear plastic snap in device) or did you get the complete one piece type? Perhaps the coil is 180 degrees/flipped around which will definately put the timing too far off for the engine to run. With the integrated one piece Magnatron, I believe the plastic has "outside" clearly embossed in it. Also check the flywheel key again. If the nut is not torqued to the minimum of like 140 ft-lbs, it will be prone to shearing. Tom (PK)

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JimH
Thank's for the pointers Tom. I have the one piece magnatron module. I will be checking everything when I get it apart again.
quote:
Originally posted by powerking_one
Did you put in the Magnetron module retrofit one (clear plastic snap in device) or did you get the complete one piece type? Perhaps the coil is 180 degrees/flipped around which will definately put the timing too far off for the engine to run. With the integrated one piece Magnatron, I believe the plastic has "outside" clearly embossed in it. Also check the flywheel key again. If the nut is not torqued to the minimum of like 140 ft-lbs, it will be prone to shearing. Tom (PK)

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dentwizz
The one piece modern magnetron has a mount that can be adjusted for timing via slots that slide along the radius. The down side is it takes an engine removal to access the blower cover. There is a timing mark/arrow on the flywheel and the mount to be set according to procedure, but I do not have the procedure quote from the manual(I know some here do...) You can test the engine on the bench while adjusting by doing the spoon/squirt of gas trick before reinstalling.

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GLPointon
The gas dripping issue: It has been determined that if you have and old carb and use a new kit, it has a "soft tipped" float needle valve (which I thought would seal better, but not so) you need to find the OEM all metal float valve "needle" and it seals better so long as the "seat" hasn't been nicked/scratched/damaged/or angle changed at all. Good luck. sm01

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JimH
Pulled the engine yesterday and as soon as I pulled the flywheel cover I saw my problem! Not quite all of my problem! On the one side of the Magnatron there are the words "CYL SIDE" molded in the plastic cover. Yes, I had it mounted wrong! Resolved that and set the mag to flywheel spacing, checked the flywheel key and the location of the magnatron mounting bracket. (centered in slots) Thought I was good to go. Got everything back together cranked the engine over and heard a loud "bang" Flywheel is turning but crankshaft is notngr2 I'm assuming I sheared the flywheel key and obviously the spark timing is still not right. Anyone know of a foolproof procedure for setting the timing with the engine out? I will not reinstall it a third time unless I know it's right.

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JimH
Thank's for that info Greg. I might also just order a new upper body for the carb and see if that work's.
quote:
Originally posted by GLPointon
The gas dripping issue: It has been determined that if you have and old carb and use a new kit, it has a "soft tipped" float needle valve (which I thought would seal better, but not so) you need to find the OEM all metal float valve "needle" and it seals better so long as the "seat" hasn't been nicked/scratched/damaged/or angle changed at all. Good luck. sm01

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powerking_one
Jim, With respect to the flywheel now spinning but not the crank, either the flywheel nut must have been EXTREMELY loose which sheared the aluminum key in a NY second (LOL) or somthing really bad happened to the internals of the engine. Since your ignition is now the 1 piece Magnatron coil/armature type, I don't think the B&S timing procedure is applicable any more for the coil bracket to flywheel alignment matching up the arrows thereof; the proceedure was for breaker points only. I would just center the mounting bracket and run the engine on the bench as Josh mentioned and if it runs badly, then adjust it some more till it runs better. If you really want to get the timing nailed down to "near perfect", then you'd have to put some White-Out marks on the flywheel at 0 degrees and at BTDC 20 degrees and use a timing light to dial it in. The adjustment range on the coil mounting bracket is not that much, say 10 degrees at the most. If it turns out to be a sheared flywheel key, make sure to torque the nut to at least 145 ft-lbs per the service manual. This is almost a 2 person job holding the flywheel with the other wrenching it. Tom (PK)

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JimH
I resolved the carb leaking issue. Ordered a new upper body assy from briggs. The new one has a brass seat and the viton needle tip seals perfectly. Got a new flywheel key and torqued the flywheel nut to 145 ft lbs. Results to follow.

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JimH
It runs! Got the engine installed this pm and everything buttoned up. Hit the starter a few times and she came to life. Before I installed the engine, I cranked the engine on my holding platform with my 12v jump pack. Also had my timing light hooked up. She was firing right where the flywheel arrow and the magnetron mounting bracket arrow meet. This tells me that with the magnetron mounting bracket centered in it's slotts this is the correct set-up. It's the same set-up as a points system. The engine service manual does not call out a different set-up for the magnetron. Here is a pic of my engine on the fixture and ready for install.
[img]/club2/attach/JimH/DSCN0319.JPG[/img]

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