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jsarro

How to safely remove a mid PTO pulley from BGB?

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jsarro
I am trying to remove the outer pulley from the mid PTO BGB that runs the belts to the rear of the tractor. I loosened the allen screw and took out the key. I sprayed the shaft with WD40. It does not appear rusted. I gave it a few good whacks with a flat bar behind the pulley and a hammer, but it has not budged. I did not want to get too aggressive for fear of damaging any gears or bearings in the BGB. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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toomanytractors
Jack: If there is room on the shaft between the pulleys shine the shaft up with emery cloth. Take a piece of pipe with an inside diameter slightly larger than the shaft and try moving the pulley toward the side plate. In other words, try tapping it toward the inside pulley. Check closely and make sure there aren,t two setscrews. Sometimes they're hidden down in the groove. Another thing you might try is using a strap wrench on the outside diameter of the pulley and work it loose that way. Good luck.

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jsarro
Things did not turn out real well. I bought the PB blaster and rented the puller tool from autozone. I sprayed the shaft down liberally and let it soak, took the allen screw completely out. I have spun the pulley multiple times, there is no hidden screw anywhere I can find behind the pulley nor in the V Groove. I attached the puller tool and ratcheted it down, before I knew it, I bent the pulley. I was not expecting that. I guess that is better than damaging the BGB. The pulley has not moved and I am stumped. Can they be this hard to get off? The identical pulley behind it moves freely, but is missing the key, that is why I am taking this apart as the back pulley keeps moving on me. Is that puller tool worth keeping? It would cost $30.00 to keep, or you get a full refund if returned.






Any further advice would be appreciated. Thanks

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ReedS
These pulleys can be a pita. Sometimes you have to take a socket that fits over the shaft and encourage the pulley to move even though it's the wrong direction, you can then use emery paper to polish the cross shaft up so the pulley will slide off with some lubrication. I can't tell you how many of those I have destroyed! BTW that type of puller really only works well on cast iron pulleys! Why do you need to remove that pulley?

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jsarro
Thanks Reed. It helps to know these can be buggers to remove. The only other pulleys I've ever changed on motors came right off with a flat bar and hammer in 1 or 2 whacks. I will try tapping a impact socket with a hammer as you said. Do you think running the impact wrench with a over sized socket over the shaft would help? I did not know that about the puller tool. I guess I wont keep it. Can I buy a replacement pulley locally or will I have to order it? The only reason I am taking this outer pulley off temporarily is because the inner pulley is missing a key. The inner pulley keeps moving when I cut my grass and the belt tracks hard to one side of the idler pulley below. I want to add a key to the inner pulley.

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ReedS
Loosen the set screws use a small drift or long piece of key stock, drive the key from outer pulley to inner pulley. Add new key to outer pulley, tighten set screws, open beer done. But come to think about how in the world can you even lose the inner pulley key?

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jsarro
In retrospect your idea would have worked. If I bought 1 long key and had not bent the pulley already. It would have been easier. I went and bought key stock today and it came in 1" and 1.5" lengths, so I figured I would put in 2 keys. To my knowledge there is no way the inner key could have fallen out. It was just missing when I investigated why the pulley was moving. I don't know how long it has been gone. There was just the set screw in there, no key. So now that the outer pulley is bent, I need to get it off. I was able to move it backwards with a hammer and impact socket, but now I am not able to get it to come forward. I cleaned up the shaft with steel wool and put on more spray. I tried putting the flat bar behind both pulleys and striking it with a hammer, but the outer pulley will not come forward yet. Where can I buy long stock? The hardware store I went to only had the short lengths.

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ReedS
Well the pulley moved, and if it's too far gone to save just use a large chisel in the v and drift the pulley off use plenty of PB on the shaft to lube it up just turn the pulley as you go, must be burred up, that said, try drifting the key into the other pulley so your not fighting that too. You could have used my other idea even with the short key stock using a drift to drive it into place. I've had tractors that have had only one key for both pulleys too!

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MysTiK
Reminds me of doing my front wheel bearings - a tiny burr on the otherwise shiny shaft. Front wheel bearing stuff should have all come off easily - but no - had to use every tool in the garage. And then it finally comes off, also for no reason. One little burr caused by the set screw poking a tiny nick in the shaft - kinda like a grain of sand. It was same on both wheels. On the good side, it's a testament to precision - but not the precision you need at removal time. This situation is almost unavoidable. This is what "toomanytractors" was indicating - driving the pulley further on to disrupt the grip of the burr, distort the burr, break loose the burr - one little crumb of "now foreign" metal jamming it up, or "burring it up". And with the bgb lurking in the background (sigh), full scale hammer destruction isn't it either. That takes me into my first major excursion with deck spindles - when it comes apart you can sometimes see why it wouldn't. In my case, it wasn't supposed to. Hopefully the further damage is non-existent. But hey, you can always buy new pulleys, or remove one from the parts tractor - if it will come off. Sorry, it just isn't fair.

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huffy
Getting pulleys off like you're trying to do can be a real PITA. Sometimes what I've done is drill 2 holes, one on each side of the shaft collar, to run eyebolts through. Put some nuts on the back. (This method only works, of course, in situations where you can get your hand behind the pulley to get the nuts on; not sure if you can in your situation). Take a 2 jaw puller, remove the jaws, and then attach the puller to the eyebolts. This puts the pulling force right near the hub. I don't have a pic of where I've done this with a pulley, but here's a pic of when I used this set up to remove a flywheel:


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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by MysTiK
Reminds me of doing my front wheel bearings - a tiny burr on the otherwise shiny shaft. Front wheel bearing stuff should have all come off easily - but no - had to use every tool in the garage. Sorry, it just isn't fair.
Thanks Graham, I can tell from your post you have experienced and feel my frustration. I have kept my cool and walked away from it last night after reasonable force was used. I am hoping to save the pulley and pound out the bend with a mallet and some flat boards when I get it off. I was not expecting this at all. It looked like a easy job. The set screw loosened right up, the key came right out. I figured a few firm whacks and it pops off. Your right Toomanytractors advised me on the pipe trick. I was able to get better contact and movement with the impact socket and hammer same concept. So now I've pushed it further on the shaft, and it needs too come forward now without damaging the BGB.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by huffy
Getting pulleys off like you're trying to do can be a real PITA. Sometimes what I've done is drill 2 holes, one on each side of the shaft collar, to run eyebolts through.
Thanks Huffy, I don't think I can do that in this situation. No one has mentioned heating it with a torch, being careful to only heat the pulley itself. Is that a safe option and likely to help or am I risking cooking some oil seals in the BGB via a hot shaft?

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jsarro
Isn't it funny how the identical pulley behind the outer pulley moves freely and that is the whole reason I started this job. That was another reason I never anticipated this to become difficult. If I decide this pulley is a lost cause, is there a easy way to cut it off and cut my losses. The benefit being I don't have to slam the heck out of it and risk damaging the BGB? What about drilling a hole or two through the pulley close to the shaft to depressurize the bond? I realize both of these methods are a last resort as the pulley is toast at that point.

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jsarro
quote:
Originally posted by ReedS
You could have used my other idea even with the short key stock using a drift to drive it into place. I've had tractors that have had only one key for both pulleys too!
Your right on that one. I'll note it for the future if I am ever in this situation again and forgo removal attempts.

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MysTiK
The only thing I can think of is revisiting all methods already tried. And considering that it's just a burr, or there's an invisible other tiny part in there that can't be seen - and that makes no sense. Have you tried the puller again? That's the least stressful on the bgb shaft. Does the pulley rotate on the shaft at all? Even a little? It seems it might with no setscrew or keys. Somebody mentioned a strap wrench. That would apply some force in different direction. I am thinking if it moves a nudge, it's coming off. I hear the word "wedge" lurking in the background. I'm also having thoughts like go mow the lawn and see if it falls apart. This is the creativity department working overtime. When making sense doesn't work, there's always insanity. :D Maybe show it the really big hammer; it might get scared and back itself off. :D I have a 3foot length of 2" tube steel that would break everything. OO (these might be bad ideas) B)

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toomanytractors
OK Jack-- I've been reading about your dilemma again today checking for progress and I've thought of something else. See if you can beg, borrow or rent a pickle fork --one where the inside of the fork is slightly larger than the OD of the shaft. Place between the inside pulley and side plate with the angled side against the pulley hub and go to work with a few well placed blows. Might work. By the way, a pickle fork is the tool used for seoarating tie rod ends on cars and trucks. Hope this helps!

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GLPointon
Have you tried heat on the pulley hub? You dont want to cook your BGB seal but a wet rag on the BGB/shaft as a "heat sink" and a hot torch on the pulley hub may help. I always soak w/PB, Heat w/Mapp gas torch, then use a big puller that can grab the back side of the pulley....Still wrecks the pulley somtimes sm00 but usually works Good luck...that can be VERY frustrating...If you throw a wrench, watch out for the tractor(s) sm01

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jsarro
OK here is how it went down. :O Tonight when I got home after work I headed out to the garage around 9 PM. 8D I was hoping a day of letting it set after spraying PB that it would just come off with a flat bar. Not the case. :(! I retried all the prior methods. They did not work. C I tried the torch and heat sink rag. OO I could not accurately monitor whether the shaft was getting hot behind the pulley so I did not go very far with this. The pulley being aluminum got pretty hot quickly but still would not budge.:O I did not want to do it, but I had to get some saws and chisels out. 666 I used a sawzall to take off both sides of the V. Then I used a Dremel powermax to cut transversely through the remaining band. A chisel was used in the process with the saws. It was not pretty. wah Once I got to the very end of the cut through the band, one hit with the chisel and it came right off.krt It held on to the very end through all that trauma. I can't figure that out. ?






It is hard to feel good about succeeding when you have to destroy something in the process of the job. ;) I figure this job began to go bad when the pulley bent while trying to use the puller device yesterday. There was no turning back at that point. Another low was after tapping the pulley further on the shaft to try to break it free, and then realizing it was not coming forward, and now I had less room to work behind it.








These are some of the tools I used. :Y


I finished up around 12 PM and was wondering why I got involved in this job in the first place. I did not feel as though I gained a whole lot here except maybe character building. 8C The inner pulley slides easily and was loose. I was mistaken, there actually was a small hidden key that was not visible under the back pulley. It was a pretty worn and loose key and was not wedging the pulley at all while fully underneath it. I assume this is why the back pulley had been drifting. I guess in the end without getting off the front pulley I could not change the rear pulleys key. I came away wondering was this worth it. yell The highlight of the night was my wife had a lamb chop dinner waiting for me after finishing the job. sm06


Thanks for everyone's help, support, and ideas. dOddOd :D There has got to be an easier way to do this in the future. sm00 Does anyone know the cheapest place to buy a new pulley? $ Thanks
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