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midnightpumpkin

Performance of the Sunstrand vs Vickers Hydro

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midnightpumpkin
Today, I got the 17GTH-L (7117) Mfg # 1691957 running, for the first since I have owned it. My initial impression is that it does not have quite as much ground speed with no load as the 7013H vickers hydro we have. Is this normal? Both machines have new drive belts which are adjusted per the manual, so the difference as I see it is in the hydro unit/final drive gears. Both are rated at 7 MPH top end. It is curious that the Sunstrand had 30W motor oil in it. The Manual for the 17GTH-L states "Multi-pupose Hydraulic/Transmission fluid or Type F". I drained the system and refilled it with 30W motor oil and installed a new NAPA 1335 filter on the transmission. I would appreciate any thoughts as to the performance of the Sunstrand vs Vickers. This is my first Sunstrand in a large frame tractor so I am trying to understand what I should expect of it. John U

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HoytBow1
In my experience: Vickers slower in reverse, about the same in forward. Vickers "smoother" / not as jerky / not as quick to respond to quick changes. Vickers leaks at the pintle shaft Sunstrand has a high pitched "whine" Only used ATF or hydraulic oil. Never used 30 wt

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midnightpumpkin
Ray, you are probably correct, that it had the Multipurpose Hydraulic/Transmission fluid in it. I incorrectly assumed that the Multipurpose would be dyed red like ATF. Although the manual says multipurpose or Type F, would there be any harm in draining it, and refilling with Dexron III, which is what I run in the Sunstrands in my Powermax tractors? John U

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GLPointon
John I would refill it with some cheap ATF then run it to mix&flush then drain again and fill with a good ATF like DextronIII...new filter too. IMO sm01 ps...I bought a 5 gal pail of "Tractor Hydraulic Fluid" for the loader and it did look just like motor oil C

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MysTiK
quote:
My initial impression is that it does not have quite as much ground speed with no load as the 7013H vickers hydro we have. Is this normal?
If the pin at the bottom of the hydro control lever was re-welded because the original weld broke loose, it is possible that it could have been welded together again in such a way that the original pin could have been slightly rotated before being welded. That would make max ground speed different - either greater or lesser. If it's slower forward, and faster reverse, then the pin rotated. Not sure if you could notice an increase in reverse speed. It's supposed to be slower maximum by original spec - I think 4 mph. The fix would be to break the weld and rotate the pin slightly; so that there is more forward movement before the hydro lever hits the "stop". It also might have been "adjusted for creep" after the re-weld, because the neutral stop would be slightly different also. Have a look at the pin on the hydro stick to see if it was welded or if it is coming apart/loose/wallered out/ etc. EDIT = not sure if this would work. You could perhaps try doing a fullscale adjustment for a "reverse/forward creep", starting with the nylon bushing being located in center of the C-shaped control bracket. I am not sure of this; but it might be possible to "effectively reset" all the relative positions of all the parts in the linkages involved by focusing on that area. OR - perhaps this kind of adjustment was done to offset perhaps a 'forward creep', thereby diminishing the forward speed. Note - This is all the same kind of stuff - it's about relative positions of the linkage parts. Perhaps start with neutral on the stick and then check for CENTERED location of the bushing in the C-control bracket. That would be easier than breaking a weld and guessing. It might be immediately obvious also. hope this helps.

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midnightpumpkin
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
The multi-pupose Hydraulic/Transmission fluid is not dyed.
I will chalk that up as one of many things I have learned from this site and I will will not soon forget! Thanks Ray! John U

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PhanDad
John, The forward ground speed of both the Vicker and Sundstrand tractors are close based on my experience with my Homelite and GTH-L, 75th, etc. The issue is the cam position on the Sundstrand unit. Unless the linkage is clean, lubed, and setup correctly, the cam won't advance all the way to the full speed area. I know Rod and others have added washers to the linkage cage to add more spring pressure to force the cam to rotate all the way. I can't find his post where he wrote about it. The only issue with adding washers is the response can become more "jerky" because the spring adds smoothing to the lever movement.

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HubbardRA
Bill, It wasn't me. My Sunstrand works fine the way it was set up from the factory. I have never had a speed problem with it. It is the fastest tractor that I own. I recall it being Roy, back several years ago, who did some work on the linkage to essentially disable the spring. Rod

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midnightpumpkin
Well after a couple of flushes with Dexronn III and a new filter, I think the oil side of this Sunstrand is in pretty good shape. I seem to have a trade off of getting higher ground speed with forward creep or lower ground speed and no creep in neutral. I am opting for no creep. When the unit is in neutral and does not creep, the roller is quite a ways off of the center mark on the cam, so I assume that some of these parts are worn. I will live with this for the present time. Thanks for the input on the subject. John U

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MysTiK
Centering the roller is part of it. A detailed descript can be found in the AC 700 series manual. Using MFR = 1690211 will get you that manual. It covers all AC 700-model 710-718. It's also one of the best manuals available for reference to other Sovy's. Also, if the roller is higher up in that C-bracket, or Cam, that is the "reverse" direction. Max Reverse is at the top. You could use that as an indicator of what will happen if you center it. I can't see which way it's off-center. 4i hope that helps Graham .

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