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flavo

Simplicity 17 GTH-L keeps shutting off

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flavo
My simplicity has been running great and out of no where is shutting off. What is happening is I can get it to start like normal and then it will shut off in an electrical manner after 5 seconds or so. Meaning it doesn't sputter or anything, just dies. It won't start right back up. I need to wait 15-30 seconds, then I hear a click behind the dash and it will start and die all over again. And the cycle continues. Had this posted on another forum and it was suggested that a pinched wire was causing the circuit board to short out. I looked for one though and couldn't find one. I replaced the relay for the heck of it and that did nothing. I could give a more thorough look at the wires but would like to hear from you folks 1st. Thanks for the help, Mike.

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flavo
New info and pic stolen from another gth-l thread. I found the source of the click that occurs when the tractor will allow itself to start up again. There are 2 red wires that come out of the back of the amp meter. One comes from the ignition I believe, into the amp meter and the other goes to a little brass box (roughly 1/2"x3/4"x 1-1/4") w/ 2 terminals coming out of it. I believe that the 2nd wire coming out of that box goes to the solenoid. That little brass box is what is clicking. That little brass box on my tractor is located in front of the safety switch for the forward/reverse movement lever. But was relocated by a previous owner. As you can see in the picture, it was not there from the factory. Can I bypass that box to see if that solves the problem? If so how? I'd imagine I cant just put the 2 wires together. [img]/club2/attach/PhanDad/SovGTHLDash_0026.jpg[/img]

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flavo
I think you are right about that. Did a search for simplicity circuit breaker and found this. This is what that "box" looks like. [IMG]http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/ftvg6.zh3qc/v/vspfiles/photos/CB125-10-2T.jpg[/IMG]

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PhanDad
That "little brass box" is probably a circuit breaker. There is a factory one in the wiring between the hot side of the solenoid and the ammeter. It can be seen in the top left area of the GTH-L wiring diagram (ignore my markings):


The newer factory ones are usually encased in black plastic but the older ones weren't; maybe the one on your tractor was replaced by the PO. Without a pic, we can't tell. So either there is a high current draw causing the breaker to open or the breaker is faulty. You don't want to bypass it until you find the problem because you risk burned wiring or worse yet a dash fire. Does the ampmeter show a large current flow when the switch is first turned on? Will the breaker trip if the switch is left on for a while (tractor not running)? If it doesn't, then maybe there's an issue with the voltage regulator shorting out after the engine's running a bit. That could be checked by removing the "B" lead or all the leads from voltage regulator and see if the problem is solved. The tractor should run fine without the voltage regulator hooked up - but the battery won't charge and the power for the ignition will come directly from the battery. Or it can be a pinched wire somewhere. Any hot wire, including those in the safety/interlock circuit that causes a high current draw could be the problem.

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flavo
It probably doesn't matter but I dont see an amp meter on that diagram. Don't know why I didn't notice it before but the amp meter stays pegged to the - side while running now before it shuts down. That is the draw side, right? I will go see if I can find the voltage regulator.

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flavo
right again. If the key is turned on but I don't start the tractor it will still pull the draw and the breaker will click itself off. I couldn't find anything resembling a voltage regulator ?

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flavo
wah So if I can't find one does that mean I need to order a tester and test every wire until I find it? If so would you be so kind as to link me to the appropriate tester so I order the right one? Thanks sm01 Whoops. with a grounded wire a tester will do nothing for me will it? I need to go through every wire maybe and cover them with tape if I can't find a break??

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PhanDad
In the wiring schematic, the ammeter is shown as the round circle with "+" and "-" on each side of it just above the circuit breaker. If I remember correctly, the voltage regulator on a KT is on the top, slightly to the right on the blower housing tin. It's basically flush with the outside and the VR fins are on the inside in the air flow. To see if the voltage regulator is partially shorted to ground, you could disconnect the two wire coupling that connects the engine to the wiring. If the ammeter still shows discharge and blows the circuit breaker, than you know the problem isn't with the voltage regulator. If it's not the VR, then you'll have to get to the ignition switch and start removing wires from the "I", "A", and "R" terminals one at a time until you find where the draw is coming from. It could also be the ignition switch itself. The wire aren't real easy to remove from the plastic connector (you have to release a barb that keeps the terminal connector in the harness connector). If you don't want to remove wires from the harness connector, then you can first disconnect the hot feed from the battery (removing a wire at the ammeter does this and I think it's a push on connector, so it should be easy). Remove the harness connector from the back of the ignition switch, reconnect the hot lead and check for draw, there should be none. If there is, then something is shorting in the connector (not likely). Disconnect the hot lead again, jumper between the "B" and the other connectors one at a time, reconnect the hot lead and look for draw until you determine which wire has the short. Once that's done, you'll know which wires have the short and then you'll have to check until you find it.

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flavo
For some reason I am really not into doing electrical work. It drives me crazy. I finally pulled the tractor up from the bottom of the hill and started to try and test wires. Although I don't really know how to use my multimeter. I just put it on the sound setting and checked a few wires that way. I did find that the connector that attaches the ignition to the 5 wires in the wiring harness had melted. When I put power to the key I could feel warmth at the connector and back of the switch. Would this indicate a faulty ignition switch? Is there a way to test the switch w/ my multimeter? Or could it still be a bad ground somewhere that is manifesting at the ignition switch. Thanks for the help again. By the way, to answer a previous question. When I put the key to the on position the volt meter pegs all the way to the left or the - position.

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RickS
Mike, The volt meeting should move to the negative side when you turn the key on. But not all the way to the left. Between the melted wires, hot key switch and the movement on the gauge I would say you have a dead short. If I would start at the ignition switch. Rick.......

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Al
Hi, The first thing I would is unplug the engine. This will eliminate the engine. voltage regulator etc. The fact that the ammeter pegs and then the circuit breaker clicks indicates the breaker is good. (If your breaker was clicking out because it was bad and not carrying the current it is supposed to the same symptom would happen, the tractor would run and die and the breaker click back in and work. The clue here is that if the ammeter only went to 3 or 4 amps and dropped out it would indicate the breaker was bad. Since the ammeter is pegging it indicates the breaker is carrying the current it is supposed to and the problem is a short to ground beyond the breaker.) KEEP IN MIND THAT THE BREAKER HAS PROTECTED YOU FROM BURNING UP THE WIRING HARNESS. IF YOU HAD A BAD BREAKER, LOW CURRENT INDICATED, YOU COULD BYPASS IT AND THE PROBLEM WOULD GO AWAY. IF YOU BYPASS IT WITH THE HIGH CURRENT INDICATED YOU WILL BE ABLE TO FIND THE SHORT BY FOLLOWING THE MELTED WIRES FROM THE SHORT BACK TO THE BATTERY!!! Usually the Red wire terminal on the ignition switch is all rusty and often gets hot and melts the plastic socket with the wires. This happens because of the 12v being on this terminal all of the time and the dust and grass draw moisture and galvanic action between the dis similar metals in the switch terminals and the wire terminals causes the corrosion or rust. Once the terminal gets rusty as the current flows through the connection heat is generated because of the higher resistance. Because this terminal gets hot AND enough current is flowing to trip the breaker it indicates the problem is beyond this point. If unplugging the engine eliminates the problem, then plug it back in and unplug the voltage regulator. If the problem disappears, then the regulator has shorted out. If the problem prevails go to the accessory terminal board and unplug the wire from the switch to the board. If nothing else is plugged into the board skip this and unplug the interlock relay, if no fix reconnect. Next I would unplug the ignition switch. I would strip a short piece of wire and push one end into the Red or 12v terminal of the plug. Next I would touch the other end to the 12v term of the ignition switch and switch to all positions. If the short symptom shows up the switch has shorted out internally. If not touch the wire to each of the wires in the plug one at a time and you should find the problem wire. CAUTION: IF YOU EVER DO THIS ON A TRACTOR WITH A MAGNETO IGNITION SYSTEM, DO NOT TOUCH THE WIRE TO THE IGNITION OR YOU WILL DESTROY THE POINTS AND COIL OR THE IGNITION MODU!!!! Hope this helps to kind of use the clues to analyze the problem and break the system down with the least amount of effort. Al Eden

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