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Modifier1

Removing the BGB

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Modifier1
This is the 716H I just picked up 2 weeks ago and was trying to dicide to part it out or fix it. Well I just could not let it go for parts just yet, so I am spliting it and removing the BGB. I also have some pics of a snow blower hitch that came with it. Looks home made to me? It did not come with a drive shaft and the input shaft on BGB is loose. Like a 1/2 in up,down and in and out.


It did come with the fiber disks








Notice the eng tags, two different specs and ser#s? Was this a reman eng? It is grey in color, all tin is black. Next pics are the blower 36in.and hitch. I am thinking small frame tractor or po modified to this hitch. Tractor has a manual front pto.




I have removed the drive shaft flange.the cone clutch and the drive pulley so far and linkages. It should be ready to split now. After it is split do I need to remove both L & R frames or can just one side be loosened or removed to get the BGB out to inspect damage. Thanks Larry

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MysTiK
There are several bolts holding the sideplates either side of bgb. To remove, you need both sides off. You might be able to support the tractor front (middle area) with stands, jacks, blocks, etc, while you subtly and gently wiggle the back end off and slide it back. But you'll need to carefully work out the support of the front half for that to happen smoothly and safely. It's possible if you are careful. (I've seen others hang it on a chain hoist, and the back end drops off). You'll need to unhook the hydro and brake controls also. A half inch movement in front needle valve and seal - is a lot! Those parts are either destroyed or removed already. (my guess). Ideal play would be little to none!. It's likely unusable now, and likely that's maybe why the drive shaft disappeared also - who knows?? I should also say I am not the greatest bgb expert - I just came through it - but I had an expert "helper" who did most of it while I watched and learned. (that was also a 716H). So I am talking recent memory - it was amazing to watch; like a strange dream. I might be able to do it myself now that I have seen it done. Good luck with it, you are on the right track. The real fun starts when you have the box in your hands and it's open. Folks here can advise you how to get bgb parts - some are Simpicity proprietary - others can be had elsewhere, maybe cheaper. Do you have the Large Frame Repair Manual? - it covers this. but you are doing quite well so far. You might want it for the inside details, unless you are already experienced with bearings and seals and shafts. The guy that helped me really doesn't read manuals anymore. :D Others can chime in with more experience than me. Especially when you get to the inspection phase. 8) Graham .

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sliderxc
hitch is definatly made from something its not the one for that tractor tractor looks good though I would not part it out either because I have 2 of them I like them so much if I were you I would look for a 42 inch snowblower this way you wont run over the lines left by the snowblower with your tires

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sliderxc
take both side off the bgh then loosen the Allen screw that holds the yoke on the front of the bgh if it doesn't come off by pulling then you could use 2 long bolts with threads long enough to push on the frame this will act as a puller if you don't have one, be sure you tighten both bolts equally after you remove the yoke loosen the 4 bolts that hold the bgh to the frame and wallah

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Modifier1
Graham, I do not have a Large Frame Repair Manual. I do have a parts manual I downloaded and the BGB rebuild directions from the archives that Ray S put in. From what I gather from the advice so far is to support the front half with a stand then I am thinking the back half when separated the BGB end will lift up? I am doing it by myself but could get a friend to assist if needed.

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MysTiK
I wish I had taken pix. B) The back wheels end up just sitting tilted forward (down) and stable like that. The support of the front half is a bit of a balancing act; we used supports both sides, with a crosspiece, plus an old bumper jack at rear to provide slight adjustments. Block front wheels probably good idea. Having a friend there is a great idea cos 4 hands are better than 2. The actual movements at separation are tiny subtle movements. Kinda slight wiggle left, and pull rear when clear - as I recall. The actual disconnect is just slight movements - all or nothing. And the front half is balanced. So it should not take great force - a friend for backup safety would be good, if possible. (seat pan is off btw) Grab those big tires and use the force.8) Approx 10 minutes was involved in adjusting the front half, trying rear half, repeat repeat - back and forth until it just released - and this with very slight vertical adjustments with the jack - tweaked a notch or 2 upwards in our case. More time was spent supporting front than separating rear. The entire rear end is not supported at all, (except by you) and with slow subtle horizontal movements, and a friend, it is easy to catch it, and roll and guide it back and away and down. In the process, it's as graceful as any 'bag of hammers'. sm01 Kinda like picking a lock. (no, I've never done that).8D It's pretty anticlimactic when it's apart. I thought it was more entertaining removing the cone clutch. Except for that moment when the rear end disconnect separates - one second of wowee. :J :D Yes, get a friend to help, mainly with safety - he's pretty much just going to observe and advise... and cheer for beer... dOd Beer might be a bad idea, until later. I just reread your question - the actual rear will tilt either way you want it to tilt - backwards or forwards, depending on the immediate balance, or tilt. Again, the movements are very slight, very slow, very gentle - it's not like a violent explosion and you end up holding the elephant. Slow, under control. It will rest downward position stable.

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MysTiK
Last time I heard, you can get the LFRManual, see RayS profile under cool links or PM Ray. (edit) I just checked, it's there, bottom right corner. (edit again) The manual covers all traxtors since 5000 B.C. - you want the newer tractors - it's headed as something like "tractors later than 990xxx" or like that - yours is later than any 990xxx - yours is 1690211, same as mine is 1690211. Your tractor is a picture of mine basically - it's in nice "original paint" condition. The manual is a little complex until you figure out what era your tractor fits, and how the manual is laid out to cover those basically 3 groups like that. no biggy. just select your pages from the "page list icons" on the left of 'adobe acrobat reader'. clear as mud. There are some excellent pix in that manual - they might be the same pix you have already seen in Ray's article that you mentioned. There's one pix of a bevel gear END VIEW that states a specific required torque - torque wrench or an educated "feel" will do.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by sammiefish
the tag on the left indicates it had a short block installed at some point
Can someone provide a little detail on what this means? - it sounds like a very good thing. Is this a factory rebuild, or just certain parts, or what? and why do they call it 'short block'?

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gomez1
A short block is usually just the major internal engine components.That usually is the block, rod,camshaft and piston.You take all the bolt on parts off of your original engine and put them on the new short block.Some places replace most of the stuff while some places just replace what is wore so you have to find out what a place does to an engine if they rebuild it. Bill

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Modifier1
Thanks, great info on the split. I was able to download the repair Manual, it will be a big help. When I pull this apart I will take pics. Let me throw one more at you. I think the PO bought this for parts but he has a 900 series and a 7117 and could not use it. was told the differential was out form the guy he bought it from. Not being able to run it can the rear end or hyd be tested to see if it is ok or do I need to put in the BGB to find out?

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MysTiK
ok - I'll bite. Point number one - I really don't know. Point number two - It seems from some posts I have read, that it MIGHT be possible to remove the entire rear end of your working 716, and substitute the entire one you want to test. From what you have said about the bgb on your new parts tractor, I would use the existing bgb on your good tractor. I think it's an either/or situation. (or fix the other one) Point number three - get a 2nd opinion from someone who has been to the mountain. :D It could be that simple; and it could be more complicated too. Seems doable to me. Point number four - proceed at your own risk. 8)

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by gomez1
A short block is usually just the major internal engine components.That usually is the block, rod,camshaft and piston.You take all the bolt on parts off of your original engine and put them on the new short block.Some places replace most of the stuff while some places just replace what is wore so you have to find out what a place does to an engine if they rebuild it. Bill
Thx for that explanation, Bill. Do you know if the sticker itself means it was done by Kohler Authorized people, or ???? I think littlemarv also picked up one of these just recently. It really sounds like a good thing. I guess the new spec numbers might indicate a date also. (?)

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by Modifier1
Thanks, great info on the split. I was able to download the repair Manual, it will be a big help. When I pull this apart I will take pics. Let me throw one more at you. I think the PO bought this for parts but he has a 900 series and a 7117 and could not use it. was told the differential was out form the guy he bought it from. Not being able to run it can the rear end or hyd be tested to see if it is ok or do I need to put in the BGB to find out?
Have a look at this thread: TekTips - testing hydros. "Hydro trans" - Rokon2813 http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27474 Also has links to sundstrand and vickers repair manuals.

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Modifier1
I have a simp 7114S #1690474-001213 would the BGB fit the A/C 716H #1690211-04536? I looked in the parts books and it only gives separate #s for all parts some the same others not. The BGB housing #s are different but most of the internal pt #s are the same.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by Modifier1
I have a simp 7114S #1690474-001213 would the BGB fit the A/C 716H #1690211-04536? I looked in the parts books and it only gives separate #s for all parts some the same others not. The BGB housing #s are different but most of the internal pt #s are the same.
I have heard RayS say it many times - basically all these large frame tractors have the same BGB - at least, from 1974 thru late 90's, or like that = yes you can use it. dOd Some of the early 70's models will also work, but one part is a little different size (needs replace) - and I forget what exactly that was. That's not in play, in your case. But never mind that, a 7100 BGB (any trans) will fit a 700 BGB (any trans). Some might differ in the ?? sideplates ??; but the BGB box is a GO. . (If Ray sees this he can say it more accurately than I can).

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Modifier1
Graham I saw RayS article while looking for the Hydro trans Rokon 2813. Someone else was saying that the varie/shuttle drives BGB shaft might be longer than the hydro? I could not find Rokons article. If the 7114S bgb works that would be great because I would hate to pull my other 716H apart.

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RayS
The BGB for the any cone clutch tractor is the same. All you have to do is look up the part numbers. If it is a shuttle, 6 speed or a hydro. Check it out. The variable speed driven shaft is longer. The shuttle, 6 speed and hydro are the same and I have one in the classifieds for sale.

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MysTiK
quote:
I could not find Rokons article.
Larry, THIS LINK HERE: http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27474 Just click on the link - it works for me. It's in the TekTips forum - on page 6. You have to be a paid ClubMember - which you are. You would need to be logged in also, no biggy. Link works - goes right to it. sm01

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huffy
quote:
Originally posted by Modifier1
From what I gather from the advice so far is to support the front half with a stand then I am thinking the back half when separated the BGB end will lift up? I am doing it by myself but could get a friend to assist if needed.
Here's some pics of how I supported everything when I split mine to remove the bgb. Kind of overkill, I guess, but I was doing it by myself and have a pretty rickety lower back due to a construction site accident years ago:












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Modifier1
Hey Huffy I want your shop:D Nice set up. I started mine on a 4x8 trailer. I am just about ready pull it apart but decided to keep it semi bolted til I go up north and pull the parts I need of my 7114S. I should have just about everything I need except the drive shaft. The parts book shows a different # from the 716H. Can you use any quality bolt and washer to install the drive shaft or are they special? I saw a drive shaft on ebay but no bolts come with it. Thanks for the pics. Larry PS Graham I did access that link, must have been something funky last night:I

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huffy
quote:
Originally posted by Modifier1
Can you use any quality bolt and washer to install the drive shaft or are they special? :I
I don't think you need Grade 8's or anything special. I don't know much about your model of tractor but from your pics it looks like the driveshaft installs the same as mine - with a fiber connector disc on each end. Those discs are pretty tough, but they should shear off before the bolts do.

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Modifier1
I just got back from up north where I took my 7114S and split it. Fun job. It came apart easier than expected. The cone clutch gave me some trouble but perseverance (stubbornness) paid off. Believe it or not the flange almost fell off. I was checking the play in the BGB and it seem to have a lot of slop in it. It was the flange that was causing the slop. PO must have played with it and had to small of a key-way. I did take pics but have not down loaded yet.

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