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simple-kid

I have tried everything

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simple-kid
I still have the spark issue. I already tried two coils, different fly wheel and tried the nova II electronic trigger, in place of the points. It still seems to lose spark when It turns over fast and the motor is spinning fast. It has great spark when it spins slower, I just don't get it. Could someone help me out?? Thanks

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gwiseman
I've posted about one I have thats really unique too. Yours may be similar. Have a NovaII installed on a 10hp briggs 24343 in a b10. Had to re-learn how to start because the engine fires immediately at release of the starter button, not while depressing it with the motor spinning as would be normal. I press the starter button to spin the engine 3-5 times, release the starter button & the engine will start right up and run. Cannot figure it out but it runs great.

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Brettw
quote:
Have a NovaII installed on a 10hp briggs 24343 in a b10. Had to re-learn how to start because the engine fires immediately at release of the starter button, not while depressing it with the motor spinning as would be normal. I press the starter button to spin the engine 3-5 times, release the starter button & the engine will start right up and run. Cannot figure it out but it runs great.
I believe that your ignition switch is likely incorrect or not wired correctly. There is no power to the "points" or NovaII when the starter button is depressed, only when released. The 3-5 times is likely when you release with enough momentum to keep turning, and at the correct time when the ignition spark is being generated. I had a similar problem years ago, and I remember it was a bugger to figure out: No spark when spinning with the key in the start position, but as soon as the start circuit was deactivated I had spark. It was the wrong ignition switch for the wiring as I recall.

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MysTiK
quote:
Originally posted by simple-kid
I still have the spark issue. I already tried two coils, different fly wheel and tried the nova II electronic trigger, in place of the points. It still seems to lose spark when It turns over fast and the motor is spinning fast. It has great spark when it spins slower, I just don't get it. Could someone help me out?? Thanks
Hey, kid sm01 Sounds like you are having a hard time there. When you say "turns over fast" and "motor is spinning fast", do you mean in both cases, that the engine is losing power at high rpm's? I mean, you are not talking about the starter motor, right? I wonder how you know it's a "spark" problem at high rpm? Is it possible it's a fuel problem? I know you are dealing with points issues, is this the same engine that lost it's points plunger?? I'm confused, and maybe some others are also. Do you think fuel supply is ok at high rpm's. Just trying to focus a little more attention on what's really happening with your engine. If it's fuel lines, bad gas, fuel filter, or carb jets, etc. - or maybe you already ruled those out. Maybe it's a timing issue. Are you getting any exhaust visible? Can you offer any more details or history to help narrow this down a little? Sometimes one little detail reveals the issue - so more details might help. Has the motor ever run well, that you have seen? Maybe it's just me who's confused - that's not unusual. :D But I don't think that's a "spark" issue either. 8) altho, it could be. But it looks like you really started a party here with all this nova electronic wizardry. Most of it's over my head anyway. I just thought a little more info would help bring some help to the case in point. (Pardon the pun, it was accidental). Sometimes I find it hard to express myself clearly. Whatever works. Gee, I dunno, it's all crazy in here - maybe a new topic? what's it gonna take to get you running? what's going on? Graham .

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simple-kid
Hi Graham, Well I have the motor on the bench for bench testing. So I use the jumper pack to turn it over, when the jumper turns the motor faster the spark just goes away. Then when I let of on the turning over of the engine, It starts sparking again because it's spinning the engine slower and then comes to a stop when the engine stops turning. This all started when I had it running great and then I put this wrong wire to the points to see if it would be a kill switch and then it didn't have good spark and it kept blowing fuse on the the starter wire. I can't believe I did that.

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MysTiK
So the motor is "10 hp briggs out of my 3210 Landlord". It was running great in the tractor originally. I'm not familiar with this 'jumper pack' - sounds like variable speed starter control - wow - that's exotic. I don't see how it helps. Are you using a spark plug tester? How can you tell what the spark is doing? Now you are blowing a fuse - on the "starter wire". Where is that wire coming from or going to? Is it black, white, red - any indicators? What kind of charging system do you have? Do you think you cooked the starter? For now, you have to teach us how to fix this so we can help you fix this. We have a benched 10hp briggs, (blowing a starter fuse), some problem caused by a mystery foreign wire, and that was applied to points while engine was running fine in the tractor. 8) The original issue was you were interested in a kill wire? what? And now, it's a spark issue? And you swapped coil, fly wheel, and tried the nova II electronic trigger, in place of the points? (after the kill wire episode?) What's hooked up now? points? nova? what? What exactly did you touch with this mystery wire? What was that "wire" connected to? Lots of things changing makes it hard to stop the world and see the big picture for troubleshooting. You gotta tell people where we are - too much stuff in motion here. Change one thing - and see what changes, if anything. Remember what change you made, so you can undo that change, as a next test. What do you think is most likely the problem? What do you think is most likely the solution? What do you think is most likely separating the problem from the solution? Is there any way to get back to a known situation, where something is known good, or known bad?? Either way, we would have a beginning. I'm not much of a troubleshooter to begin with. Maybe someone knows where to begin.

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simple-kid
Alright. Ok first I took the motor out so I could run the old coil under the cowling, Then I got it running great with the old coil under the cowling. But at this point I had no kill switch, So I ran a wire that came off the electric coil that was on it when I got it. So I ran the wire from the kill switch directly to the points where the condenser hooks on the points. Then I tried to start it but wouldn't start and it just kept blowing fuse off the black wire that runs from the key switch to the + side of the battery. Then when I had removed the wire that ran to the points It started turning back over again but then I didn't have enough spark to run it at high idle. So I pulled the motor again and I still can't get good enough spark when it turns over fast. I have the Nova II trigger on it right now. The only thing that is left to check is the to wires, One from the coil to a kill wire and the wire from the points to the coil. The reason I understand what the spark is doing, because I have the spark plug grounding to metal and I'm watching it spark and then die off when the flywheel spins fast. The jumper pack is a battery jumper. IT give power to the starter/gen so I can bench test the motor. After it started not sparking at high rpm's I changed most everything. Now the motor is siting on the bench.

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MysTiK
OK. That's a story that people can follow. Now the part where you say "I changed most everything"; Did you swap exact parts for exact parts - so in effect = no change? Or did other things change as well? This is starting to make sense, even to me, and I am pretty challenged by this stuff - (like "idiot" level) - it's hilarious. You know way more than I do. :D And you are the man with everything right there in front of you, and you know what happened, in detail. So, that wire to the points box was not a good idea. And you had to replace a few fuses between the ignition switch and the +battery terminal - (fuse holder??). Got rid of that nasty wire. What happened to the original kill wire? Where did that go? Assuming there was one. I am thinking it's coil or condenser or points issue. I also wondered if there's enough juice in that batterypack to get the results you want. Also a grounded plug is not exactly installed, and could be inconsistent. (just generalizing here). But we need to know IF OR WHAT "other" changes happened, and/or are those effectively No Change, or did things escalate to a whole other level, or just a few minor details, all kinds of possibilities and you are the man with the details. I doubt you gave up and took it to the scrap yard. It's not that bad. You even have spark by the sounds of it - which is encouraging. So something is working. What else. you're probably going to fix this just by telling me about it. That would be cool. 8D But I am surprised that no one else has jumped in yet. Maybe a few more clear descripts will get some action.

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simple-kid
Thank you Graham, I guess Ill HAve to run a few more new wires from the coil to the points and one to the kill switch and see if that makes a difference. If thats not it then Im gonna change the motor out with a different one.

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ReedS
Ok from what I gather you connected a wire that you thought was the magneto kill wire to the points, now it does not run well. It was also blowing the main fuse. Not good. The blown fuse would indicate to me, a short to ground, (likely in magneto system). In my experience anytime you connect power to the magneto it will get toasted. In this case you may have a partially shorted magneto coil. If it were me in this situation I would replace the mag coil and go from there. Now I know somewhere in here there is an ohms spec for both the primary and secondary windings on the mag coil, neither should be 0 nor infinite nor should there be any continuity between the two but I don't know the ohm spec for the windings. Magneto kill wires are always to ground never to power. If you have an extra mag coil now would be the time to swap the coil out IMO.

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simple-kid
Thanks Reed, I put two new coils on it with the wire off the points and it will still not spark good. So I have ruled out the coil and my new novaII electronic trigger in place of the points. I put a new flywheel on it. Gaped the coil 10 different times. All that I haven't ruled out is the two wires coming from the coil, (One kill switch wire and one wire that goes to the novaII electronic trigger).

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ReedS
Two new coils? Which wire off the points? The two wires that lead under the shroud likely go to the same place, the stud on the shroud. Make sure the stud is isolated from ground, make sure your coil is facing the right way. The coil won't work well if it's backwards. Uninsulated wire at coil is ground, other lead go to the stud. One of the two at the stud should go to your points the other to ground (kill switch). No 12v on any of these wires ever! 12v any where here will fry the mag coil. Also check wires for shorts to ground, I have have these points wires chafe enough to ground the ignition out once the points cover is on.

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