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bigdoug42

Pto bearing wear vanguard 18 hp - Landlord

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bigdoug42
Hi all, I have an early 90's Landlord with a vanguard engine, model 350777 1159 E-1, that has a worn pto bearing causing an oil leak. (Seal has been replaced, still leaks.) This is the second engine I have had this happen to, at about 300 hrs. With the pto clutch off, I can grab the pto shaft and move it slightly back and forth. what causes this wear? I recently replaced the pto clutch, could the worn out one have caused this, or excessive vibration in the mower deck? Is there a better repower engine for this tractor? One with a ball bearing on the pto side? Thanks in advance for any answers anyone has.

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acfarmer
Common problem with Vanguard engines I have had a couple White 1855 with the same engine that developed an oil leak around 300 hrs,appears to me the shaft just runs against the case.Poorly designed engine

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steve-wis
Might be that there is too much tension on the belt, pulling too hard sideways on the engine shaft? I am running a 616 yeoman, 1965 vintage, original engine, with no play in the shaft. There is no bearing at the sump, just runs on the aluminum case. Or maybe the quality of the material is not the same? Just some thoughts. If you tear down the engine, a machine shop could bore out the sump and install a bronze bushing for you for not too much money, I would think. Steve

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Chris727
They did make these engines with ball bearings too but Simplicity didn't select the higher grade engine. Steve, I agree I have seen lots of older broadmoors with no major problems. Ninety percent of todays mowers are belt drive with no ball bearings, seems maybe some of these did have a poor casting or something else causing this problem.

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Chris727
quote:
Originally posted by RayS
Chris, the sump is removal? If so than a new or used sump cover is all that is needed instead of replacing the motor correct?
Yes Ray, I had mine off to chagne the pan gasket (leaking because of age.) Was a pretty simple job. As long as the crank isn't worn too, sump replacement should be all thats needed.

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bigdoug42
You know, I got to looking at the original 16 hp that came with the mower, I believe its a 303777 model and took the sump off, and low and behold, no wear at the pto. As I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, this sump should fit the 18 hp also, so that is what I will do, swap them out. The reason I bought the second motor was that I hit a large exposed tree root with the previous motor, also an 18 hp, which stopped the mower like, right now, and it started leaking oil after that, so I figured it must have bent the crankshaft, which caused the deflection and wear on the pto end.

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Al
Hi, We have a ton of these engines out. We replace the oil seals on some, but have not seen this problem. We have replaced some with about 5 or 600 hours on the grenaded. They always had grass in the cylinder fins and had overheated. We have seen many still running with over 2000 hours. To get there, change oil 50 to nmt 100 hrs, keep air filter clean, (DO NOT BLOW OUT WITH AIR) Keep the pre cleaner clean and oiled, Do not mow etc with the engine running below wide open or very near wide open. It will run hot! Centrifugal fans operate on a square law function. If you take a fan running at 1000 rpm and double the speed it will produce the square of the increase multiple. or 2 times therefore it will produce 4 times the air at 2000 than it did at 1000. Now lets go from 2 to 4000 rpm. The same thing happens 2 squared or 4 times the 2000 rpm air movement. This means you have 16 times the air at 4000 rpm that you have at 1000 rpm. When you reduce the engine speed from top governed speed, the air flow drops significantly. At the same time the heat produced by the engine goes up, because to do x work at a lower speed, the torque load increases and the engine lugs and produces more heat. ALL of the engine companies harp on this in service schools: Educate your customers to run there engines wide open any time they are working. Briggs says that only 2 things can cause valve seat rings to come out. 1: Plugged fins, 2: mowing at half throttle. About 3 yrs ago, we got a Grazer in 10 years old and missing on 1 cyl. We pulled the engine and head, seat ring out. I called the customer and asked, Andy are you mowing with this at 1/2 throttle? He said funny you should ask. We used to hire kids to mow at all 3 farms. They just ran the[img]/club2//attach/UCD/censored1.gif[/img]out of the mower, this year I got an old retired guy and he just takes his time. Regarding tne sump. The usual cause of failure of these bearings is the electric clutch. The coil has 12 volts in and often the ground side is where the safety switches are located. The common problem is a short from the winding to the clutch frame. Any leakage or a partial short and the 12v goes in and part way through the coil and at whatever point the coil contacts the clutch the current goes to the crankshaft and bearings to ground. It only takes a couple or three hours to destroy an engine, the main bearings will be gone and the rods damaged also. We have probably replaced 50 engines through the years for these clutch failures. The problem was really bad in the early 90s. We rarely see it now as the clutch failure problem has been corrected. If you take the sump off the bearing and the crankshaft will have a satin look instead of shiny, This current flow works just like an EDM (Electronic Discharge Milling Machine.) This may get up to .100 inch clearance before things grenade. We fixed a Grasshopper the clutch got with a Kubota diesel. Took a new crank, mains, rod brgs, rings and clutch about $3200. My thoughts, they are free value accordingly. Al Eden

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bigdoug42
Mr. Eden, an excellent post. interestingly enough, the whole overheat and valve seat problem happened to the original 16 hp, courtesy of an overwintering mouse family that found a cozy home in those fins. It was an expensive lesson to learn. I did replace the original clutch this summer, it was about as completely worn out and loose as I imagine one could be. I have the sump off, the crank still looks nice and shiny, but the pto bearing surface is so worn I don't even need to check it with a tool, I can eyeball it. Also the sump from the original engine has no wear at the pto and looks to be a slightly stouter casting in a few spots, notably around the governor shaft. the oil pump and screen are slightly different, but these are probably engineering changes.

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