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Firefighters object to American flag.


BrendonV

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I find it very hard to believe the stars and stripes could ever be a symbol of oppression to a black man! This is the flag (plus a few stars) that flew over the army that freed the black man. I can understand black citizens being offended by the confederate flag (and no offense to our southern members either as I understand it's a symbol of their heritage). Paul
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Paul, Are you sure you're a "liberal"..? This may shock you, but my “liberal” (sensitive) side can understand the feelings of some African-Americans. In many ways racism is still practiced in our country that the Flag represents. However, my “conservative” (realistic) side believes this country offers many acceptable avenues of redress. For those who are not satisfied with them, they are free to leave and find a better place. Since I’m on my soapbox I may as well state that I am totally opposed to any harassment, by so-called Americans, of those who are different. But, I am at a loss to understand why many come to this country and continue to wear their native clothing. If I were to visit the country from which they came, I would be prudent and wear my crucifix under my shirt. I wouldn’t feel by doing so I was renouncing my Christian faith. I blame the “liberals” for multi-culturalism and English as a second language. Like it or not, the U.S.A. was born on Judeo-Christian beliefs and Anglo-Saxon culture. While we welcome those of different beliefs and cultures, we should not be expected to change to suit them. If anyone is offended by our language or culture they could certainly attempt to duplicate what we have built (with the changes they desire) in the country of their choice. I find it rude when people who can speak English revert to their native language in my presence. It reminds me of children whispering. Rather than be offended, I let them believe they have their secrets. It is very enlightening what others will say when they believe they are not understood.
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Firefighters object to climbing aboard a fire truck that sported a large American flag.[A href='http://www.miami.com/herald/content/news/local/dade/digdocs/113728.htm']http://www.miami.com/herald/content/news/local/dade/digdocs/113728.htm[/a]
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Dutch, I define myself as really more a Democrat than a Liberal, and for reasons other than those that charge the "bleeding heart liberals". I realize that there is still a great degree of racism in this country, but I feel it works both ways. Misunderstanding of one person's native culture can breed racism, no matter what race you are. I'm 3/4 German and 1/4 Norwegian (So I can take pills for that), and 100% American. I take pride in my ethnic heritage as well as being an American. I brew and drink beer, eat bratwurst & sauerkraut, and of course Lefse. Therefore, I have no problem with other cultures wearing their native dress or practicing their own religion, or even speaking their native tongue. When I was growing up, my grandparents would speak german whenever they didn't want us kids to hear what they were saying. I just figure it's a private conversation and leave it at that. I'm actually saddened that I never picked up the language as it sure would come in handy sometimes! As far as these two black firefighters are concerned, I just dont think that our flag represents any form of racism, but rather the opposite. While racism still lives in this country, it's more of an infection in our society than a product of the free state that our flag represents. I've always felt that one of the best attributes of this country is that it is a big "melting pot". No, my liberal tendencies are more because: 1. I am a sportsman owning 5 firearms but do not support the hard-line stand of the NRA on waiting periods, and mandatory background checks. 2. I tolerate abortion under "grave danger" cicumstances. 3. I support the trade unions. 4. I am against organized Devil Worship & Witchcraft in public schools. If you allow prayer you have to allow that. 5. The healthcare system in this country needs serious attention. 6. Our public schools are in poor shape compared to when I went to school and it is the resources, not the teachers that are the problem. 7. I do not have enough faith in the criminal justice system to bring back capital punnishment (in WI). In fact, we have just had a murder conviction in our area and there was no body ever found. No, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. In fact I voted for John McCain in the primary, but by the time Wisconsin's primary came around Bush was already in. There's scuttlebut that Feingold may run in 2004. I will likely, vote for him. Paul
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Symbol of Opression??? Interesting. MAybe someone ought to fly the stars and bars off the truck and see what they think of that.
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Good, MPH, I like that line of reasoning. You Mom is probably right. I guess it's the firefighters though that I don't understand. I'm a carpenter/remodeling contractor also, so I think of a metre as a yardstick, rough cut to length. So you're right about converting back. Paul
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Paul, there are black men and there are-----, there are white men and there are honkies, there are Mexican men and there are wet backs, there are oriental men and there are gooks, there are arabs and there are rag heads I could go on for hours, when they all live in this great free country they should become Americans or get the hell out...While I served my country, I learned to pick the difference, color don't matter if the heart is right..MPH
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Paul, I may help you understand your grsnparents speaking the old country as my mom and dad did the same and not to long ago I talked with my mom about it when she met someone in a store we were in and they carried on a talk I did not understand, she relate to me that even though you speak in english basicly your thoughts are still in the lanuage you grew-up in, so your translating as you speak and some words just don't convey the message. Makes sence to me as I work in inches and feet as a carpenter, I can work with the metric system, but a meter is still 39 some inches long. MPH
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You're right on that, it does not matter if you White, Black, Red ,Orange or Green, its the individual inside that bears looking at. I think it is a disservice when the media inevitably always announces," this is so in so- a African American" I say Who Cares! Lets here what "so in so" has to say. We don't need the announcement "an African American". It does not matter. And they did this again right after the Presidents speech. The beginning of real equality will be when those "announcements" start to disappear in the public forum.
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Let me say from first hand that as a retired State Trooper that i have experienced racism in and out of uniform and a couple of times even from co-workers that did not recognize me. I have received hate mail threatening my life,i have been called the N word on and off duty, i can go on forever. This subject is DEEP and I do not want to make light of any other race but from my viewpoint NOTHING compares to the plight of the black man in this country.You cannot begin to understand what we go through.Can you imagine the pain of having to explain to your child what it means when they ask you why they were called that by their classmates and the teacher heard and did nothing.I well understand what the firemen are feeling. the situation was allowed to to exist by the Gov't for years before addressing it with civil rights laws which had to be fought for and paid for with blood. Check your history the Civil war was not fought to free the Black man who went and fought wars and spilled his blood to FREE others only to come back and still be treated as second class citizens.I was born here and I LOVE THIS COUNTRY so don't tell me if i don't like it to leave, this is my home, but there are a lot of problems with it. Remember the old saying not to judge anyone until you walk a mile in their shoes. GBA Nubian
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I usually try and have fun when I'm around a PCH (Politically Correct Hypocrit). If they point out someone as an African-American I will ask who they mean. Then I'll ask something like, "Why didn't you say the man in the blue suit in the first place..? What part of Africa is he from..? Later on I'll go back to the PCH (let's say his name is Murphy) and say, "I don't think that man is an African-American, his name is William Kelly he must be Irish-American just like you."
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Oh, boy, here we go again! No one can understand me because he can't walk in my shoes 'cause I'm black-or African American- or Nubian- or what ever is politically correct today. "We've been treated so badly by this country." Don't make me sick. Look at the salary of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan or Arsenio Hall, etc. ad nauseum. My heritage is American Indian. I said AMERICAN. Look at your history and compare it to mine. Do I feel sorry for you? I DON'T THINK SO! And I don't want anyone to feel sorry for ME! You make your own way. Don't grouse about what happened 200 years ago. Gary K.
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ask the Kurds in Iraq about oppression. chemical warfare agents are(I think) pretty damned oppressive. the founding fathers tried to create a nation that was/is tolerant of other beliefs cultures etc etc and they did a good job. thing is the US isnt perfect but we keep trying and given the fact that we have served as a model for others we must be doing something right. I am sorry that those fireman see the flag as oppressive but will defend their RIGHT to say that to the end.
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Guys, don't let this get out of hand. We all share something in common by being members of this club -- and we all agreed to comply the rules of the club (linked below) when we joined.... Yes, we're all different in some way, and let's celebrate the fact. Our diversity and our differences make us strong -- but it must be coupled with tolerance and acceptance of those differences. The only limits to your freedom is the freedom of others -- and they are as deserving of their freedom as you.... This is time when we need to be united, not divisive, even though feelings and opinions may run strong.... My 2 cents! God Bless America![A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/clubhouse/privacy.htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/clubhouse/privacy.htm[/a]
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I agree with you Daveyboy as I stated previously I LOVE THIS COUNTRY,it's the best thing going on this planet but it is not perfect. Hey Gary, out of all the American-Africans as you prefer to say it, that live in this country are those the only names you can come up with, it's not all about $$$$.There are still some Clubs that won't let Tiger play no matter how much $$$$ he has,because of the skin he's in! No one asked you for your sorrow or pity. Although I MIGHT disagree with the timing of their stance, I merely stated that I understood how they felt from my view point. Grouse about what happened 200 hundred years ago? If that were true you would have a point. But slavery LASTED well over 200 years NOT 200 years ago, the Civil rights era where Blacks,Jews,Whites and children were murdered happened in the 60's. And while where at it when was the last time a person was lynched, beaten to death, subjected to racial profiling by the police, shot by the police by accident or even tied to the back of a pick up truck and dragged to his death etc..... because he was an American Indian. Considering the bubble you live in, this might surprise you, but it's still happening today to non-American Indians. ENOUGH! I've said my peace I want to talk tractors. Nubian
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