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mbsengineer

What is the best fuel pump and carb kit for k301?

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mbsengineer

I replaced my fuel pump a couple years ago, but I bought a cheap plastic housing pump, with interchangeable nipples, that press in ... it just wasn't a quality product. I'm assuming there are better ones out there. I'm wondering if someone could recommend one, or recommend where I could buy one? Also, I was thinking the same might be true for a carb rebuild kit, so I wanted to inquire about that also.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

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midnightpumpkin

Here is an excellent buy on a low pressure electric fuel pump. I have bought 2 of them, they are made by Facet/Purolator.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221137954234?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Just plumb it in, in place of the existing fuel pump. Ground the black wire and connect the red wire to a point that is hot when the key is on.

The electric fuel pump has many advantages over a mechanical or vacuum fuel pump, instant priming being the major one.

Just my 2 cents.

John U

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mbsengineer

Cool. Can I just mount this over the existing fuel pump "hole", or should I just leave the current (broken) pump in place to cover the hole and mount this elsewhere?

Also, how do I what PSI I need, and how to set it?

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midnightpumpkin
quote:Originally posted by mbsengineer

Cool. Can I just mount this over the existing fuel pump "hole", or should I just leave the current (broken) pump in place to cover the hole and mount this elsewhere?Also, how do I what PSI I need, and how to set it?


id="quote">
id="quote">The fuel pump on e-bay produces 2-4 PSI, there is nothing to set. Is your existing pump mechanical or vacuum operated? If it is mechanical I would remove it and put a block off plate in it's place.http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOHN-DEERE-140-H1-H3-GARDEN-TRACTOR-12-14HP-KOHLER-K301-K321-FUEL-PUMP-BLOCK-CAP-/290728704128?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b0c7f880If it is vacuum, just plug the vacuum line, you can leave the old pump or mount the electric in it's place, whatever works best for you. John U

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MysTiK

Someone posted about a fuel pump recently, said that just bypassing the old pump would work - gravity feed. Can't find that post now.

I thought that would be a good solution. Flow rate on that electric device is 10 gal/hr. I think any fuel line could drain a tank that fast. It was also said that a certain minimum fuel in the tank is required, or that you can' get the bottom region of the tank fuel, cos at some point the carb is higher than the fuel level - or words to that effect. I think there was a pix of it too - with the old original pump still plugging the original hole.

My original K341 fuel pump is still working; but it slow leaks when parked, so I use a shutoff valve on the line. There's 4 screws on the original that work loose - problem is can only tighten 2 of them, unless rem the carb. But just 2 stopped the leak for me, for a while.

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GLPointon

Graham if you eliminate the fuel pump then gravity can only "feed" the carb until the gasoline in the tank is level with the carb. So you would need to keep the tank more top'd off....I say just fix it, its not hard or costly. I just saw a Kohler pump on E-Bay or convert to elec pump like john said. sm01

quote:Originally posted by MysTiK

Someone posted about a fuel pump recently, said that just bypassing the old pump would work - gravity feed. Can't find that post now.I thought that would be a good solution. Flow rate on that electric device is 10 gal/hr. I think any fuel line could drain a tank that fast. It was also said that a certain minimum fuel in the tank is required, or that you can' get the bottom region of the tank fuel, cos at some point the carb is higher than the fuel level - or words to that effect. I think there was a pix of it too - with the old original pump still plugging the original hole.My original K341 fuel pump is still working; but it slow leaks when parked, so I use a shutoff valve on the line. There's 4 screws on the original that work loose - problem is can only tighten 2 of them, unless rem the carb. But just 2 stopped the leak for me, for a while.


id="quote">
id="quote">

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MysTiK

I knew that. I just heard it thru the grapevine. But it seems the new Kohler pump is out already (altho the brand was not mentioned).

I'd do the hack if I needed the lawn mowed. And then likely replace.

That little electric one looks pretty bulletproof.

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mbsengineer
quote:Originally posted by midnightpumpkin

Here is an excellent buy on a low pressure electric fuel pump. I have bought 2 of them, they are made by Facet/Purolator.http://www.ebay.com/itm/221137954234?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649Just plumb it in, in place of the existing fuel pump. Ground the black wire and connect the red wire to a point that is hot when the key is on.The electric fuel pump has many advantages over a mechanical or vacuum fuel pump, instant priming being the major one.Just my 2 cents.John U


id="quote">
id="quote">What's the best place to connect to that's hot when the key is on? Anyone know offhand?

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BLT
quote:Originally posted by mbsengineerWhat's the best place to connect to that's hot when the key is on? Anyone know offhand?id="quote">
id="quote">Tie it together with your ignition wire. It always on run and or start.Here's a wire diagram.

7114StartDiagram.jpg

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HubbardRA

Regardless of the pressure that the fuel pump puts out, you can make it the same as a gravity feed setup by using a dual fuel line setup like I show in the picture below. The return line should go up to a height of at least the bottom of the tank, but not higher than the top of the tank.

FuelLineRouting.JPG

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MysTiK

I don't get it; but that's not unusual. This electric pump does 2-4 psi and will pump 10 gals per hour. What keeps the gas flow under control? If the float in the carb is full, it seems this pump is still pumping 2-4 psi and 10 gals per hour.

Rod's diagram shows how overflow would be prevented, and over-pressure would be non-existent.

So is what's shown in the diagram not only equivalent to gravity feed; but also the only way to do the install?

It seems that if it's installed otherwise, that there is no regulation on this electric pump - not that's been mentioned - it's full time on, no priming required.

Have I got this right? or am I really out to lunch on this? Is Rod's diagram the best install?

One time I left a key on all night, tractor parked in garage - the original fuel pump is mechanical, powered by camshaft, no problems.

But what would happen with 2-4 psi/10 gals per hr. if it were not "dual T'd + dual fuel lined".

Sounds messy to my worried mind. I just don't know how a carb could hold back the flood.

(I have that "you are about to get schooled" feelingid="size1">.) :D

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HubbardRA

Some of the electric pumps for foreign cars only produce about 2 psi. The needlevalve in the GT carbs will usually hold that much when the engine is operating. Many of the American electric fuel pumps will make 6 to 8 psi. That is too much for the GT carbs to hold. The fuel line routing that I show above was developed by local garden tractor pullers to cure the needle valve leakage problems that most of them were experiencing. I always ran a gravity feed system, so I never actually ran one of the two line bypass systems.

Graham, with the electric pump pushing directly into the carb, without a bypass, it will only pump the volume that the needlevalve will let into the carb. The pressure specified for the pump is the maximum pressure that the pump will produce when the fuel is restricted or stopped. The problem is that the needlevalve has to hold against that pressure the entire time the engine is running. That pump does not cycle on and off.

Some of the high volume fuel pumps used for automotive racing applications do cycle on and off to control pressure. Most of these are adjustable for the low pressure turn on and the high pressure turn off. These pumps are fairly large and also carry much higher purchase costs than the little pumps we are talking about above.

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MysTiK
quote:Originally posted by HubbardRA

Some of the electric pumps for foreign cars only produce about 2 psi. The needlevalve in the GT carbs will usually hold that much when the engine is operating. Many of the American electric fuel pumps will make 6 to 8 psi. That is too much for the GT carbs to hold. The fuel line routing that I show above was developed by local garden tractor pullers to cure the needle valve leakage problems that most of them were experiencing. I always ran a gravity feed system, so I never actually ran one of the two line bypass systems.Graham, with the electric pump pushing directly into the carb, without a bypass, it will only pump the volume that the needlevalve will let into the carb. The pressure specified for the pump is the maximum pressure that the pump will produce when the fuel is restricted or stopped. The problem is that the needlevalve has to hold against that pressure the entire time the engine is running. That pump does not cycle on and off.id="blue">Some of the high volume fuel pumps used for automotive racing applications do cycle on and off to control pressure. Most of these are adjustable for the low pressure turn on and the high pressure turn off. These pumps are fairly large and also carry much higher purchase costs than the little pumps we are talking about above.


id="quote">
id="quote">Thank you very much, Rod, for your thorough explanation. Obviously, I don't know my carb parts well enough yet. It seems that in the scene I described, if I were to leave the key on overnight, by accident, things could get really messy, not to mention dangerous. If I go with an electric fuel pump, like the one above, I will follow your diagram.If the needle valve maybe can't hold against pressure, then an old worn carb (needlevalve, etc.) is maybe an even higher risk. It seems gravity feed is adequate, so keeping the pressure stuff out of the equation, and providing a controlled spill route, by recycling back to gas tank, is the only way to go. Security for the cost of a couple of "T"'s and a few feet of fuel line - I like it. And the full tank of gas is available too. That's what I want. dOd

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mbsengineer

Just to revisit this old post of mine...

I'm actually going to convert my K301 over to an electric pump (in fact, I already have the pump in hand .. a 2-4psi pump). After re-reading this thread, I'm confused. Do I HAVE to do the "loopback" send fuel line, or with this lower pressure pump, am I fine to just plumb it straight in and skip the send line?

I just want to make sure I'm doing it based on previous success so I don't waste time and effort if it's not necessary.

Also, if I do skip the "loopback" line, what will I see/hear happen if the carb can't hold the pressure, and extra gas is leaking into the carb bowl?

Thanks!

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PhanDad

You do NOT have to do the "loopback" line.

BUT, if your particular carb needle/seat can't hold back 2-4 psi, then some fuel will flow into the carb (leak rate of flow). If the engine is running and using the leak rate of fuel or more, everything will be fine. If it isn't, the extra fuel will go somewhere - either into the engine (engine will run rich, maybe flood out) or leak to the outside.

However, IMO, the main problem is if the key is left on, the pump will continue to run at dead head. I doubt the heat buildup (the energy has to go somewhere) would be great enough to cause a problem, but if there's any leakage, the entire tank of gas is going to be pumped somewhere.

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