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bigten65

tire fluid

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jmhusby

Most use window washer fluid or RV antifreeze. No problems using this type of fluid. The stuff thats bad for rims is the fluid they normally use in the big tractors. Will rust the rims away.

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Brettw

Not sure how many gallons a 23-10.50-12 tire would take, but consider that washer fluid (water) is just under 8#'s per gallon. So if you could put in 5-6 gallons of fluid you are loading the rears to the tune of approximately 40-48 #'s each. The plus in the fluid filled tires for added weight vs weights, is that they are easier on the drive train as the weight and its kinetic energy / momentum, either to start moving or stop moving is, well, fluid. When you stop it can keep rotating, when you start you aren't trying to move and rotate the weight. Not sure how critical all of that really is. If your tires are loaded, you are moving that weight all year long, whereas solid weights can be removed when not needed.

Horse a piece and a matter of opinion I guess. If you're into horses that is.8D

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Brettw
quote:The weight is is in the same basic location. Within the rim.id="quote">
id="quote">

It is, Ray. But when you start moving, the fluid has to "catch up" from the standpoint of rotating it, and when you stop, it continues to rotate while you have come to a stop. This reduces the torque on the axle and drivetrain to some extent, I believe. I may be wrong, but I though I had heard that fluid filled vs. solid weight is easier on the equipment. To any significant extent? That I do not know.

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rich_kildow

it all comes down to sprung vs unsprung weight when dealing with stress on the frame/drivetrain. When you fill the rims, that is no extra weight on those components. Also, there is some rotational momentum there that is going to add stress to drive components when starting/stopping.

However, this will only aid in traction. Filled tires will not offset any sort of weight on the front since it is below the fulcrum (rear axle). Adding weight is like making the pivot of a see-saw heavier...gives the see-saw more traction but doesn't balance the other side.

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GrincheyOne

If you take the mean weight (44#) offered by Brett; and divide by 7.5#, It comes out to 5+ gallons. Be sure to put enough in to fully immerse the rims, else you will be inviting rust.

Wayneid="Book Antiqua">

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Brettw

I just filled a new set of ags tonight. They took 5-1/2 gallons of wiper fluid with room left for air and do cover the entire rim. So about 40#s each. As an FYI and an easy load, I mounted the tires on the rims so the bead seated. Then laid the tires down, valve stem side up, and broke the bead on one side of the rim and poured the fluid into that gap. When full, I put air back to them and reset that part of the bead. It was fast and easy.

As an aside, I am pleased with the BKT Ags, the quality, size, fit and without question, price.

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HubbardRA

As Mike said previously in a post, you need a front, a middle, and a rear weight rack on a tractor. This is what I use. No wheel weights, and no fluid in the tires. Also, I only put weights on these racks when I need it and remove it if I don't. With three racks, I can balance the chassis however I need it, both fore and aft and left and right.

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Brettw

I can agree with Rod, that weight racks obviously do not add rotational stress to the drive train. However, the drive train still needs to move the extra weight. Not a big issue considering the loads when pushing dirt or snow, or climbing steep grades; the tractors are designed for this.

However, "sprung" weight (the tractors are not "sprung" as in suspension with springs, shocks, etc.) does add a load to the axles, axle tubes and all components right up to the wheel lugs and technically the welds that weld the wheel mounting surface to the rims.

I have never, ever seen a broken (as in broken and sagging) trailer, truck or car rear end/axle from heavy tires, but certainly have from the vehicle being overloaded. I have seen broken drive trains from excessive torque being applied to those drive trains.

So what is better? Stressed drive components from rotational inertia, or stress on axles and tubes, etc.? That is the question.

The last thing I would add, is that loaded wheels or wheel weights, do not get in the way of rear implements, center weights may get in the way of clearances for a cab or perhaps a grader blade or deck, and front weights with a snow blower, etc. I am sure for pulling, this all makes sense, and the ability to quickly change or eliminate weight is a plus. But for a working tractor I think this may be more of an issue?

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GLPointon

I filled my 23 x 8.5 x 12 Ags on my Loader and got 6 gals of WW-Fluid in each tire...but that was very full. I did this because the loader needs as much counterweight as possible.

I agree with Ray, for regular snow removal work or garden use I think weights & chains are better...I have used chains on my worker tractor for many yrs of snowblowing/plowing/etc & never had a problem or got stuck...

my $.02 sm01

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MikeES

There is a slight loss to fluid vs. weights. The fluid in the tires is sliding against the inside of the tire creating some drag and friction...so it is absorbing some hp.

One more little thing...with all that weight in the tires it makes them much harder to mount to the axles expecially if you don't have lug studs.

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Brettw
quote:One more little thing...with all that weight in the tires it makes them much harder to mount to the axles expecially if you don't have lug studs.id="quote">
id="quote">

Tell me about it. Good thing I don't change tire/wheel assemblies like I do underwear, every month or so, or it would be a real chore.:D

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MysTiK

I don't see much problem with inertia, momentum, and all that. And with all the weight on the wheels, it can't be any worse than driving over a rough area. I suppose if you drive like a drug crazed meth-head, there could be issues - B)

What I like is that wweights bolt on and bolt off, no muss, no fuss. And no worries about what happens if something leaks 5 gallons of wwf all over the garage - naw, that won't happen. sm01

Interesting discussion on the physics involved. I can see how wwfluid would be comparable to sprung weight; but I don't think there's a need to worry.

I'm about to install 50lb wweights - that will give me some experience with which to comment further. or not. And using chains also - I just hope those go on w no hassle - both fabulous firsts for me. Of course, most of this tractor stuff is ongoingly new and exciting and unique.

The endless learning experience. It all matters somehow, even if it doesn't. 8) :D So fill your boots, and do your thing. cheers.

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goodtimo

if you're not talking about weight for snow removal...Fluid in the rims can help lowers the center of gravity. It's much better when working on angles and side ditches.

quote:Originally posted by bigten65

What is the best tire fluid to use in the rear tires for weight? How much to use. And pros and cons of doing this. I have a bigten. Thanks in advance.sm01


id="quote">
id="quote">

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MysTiK

Wouldn't it be the same with fluid or weights - since they all attach at the same point? So gravity actually pulls on the hub? Or, you could say, mass is attached to hub?

I remember being taught physics that weight is dependent on gravity, whereas mass is an absolute. Weight does not exist in space. wow. far out man. :D But mass exists regardless. But people trendoids talk today that everything is "absolutely" - gimme a break. 8) Absolutely trendoid. And then there's the metaphysical absolute - but we aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto. 8D But note, a snowblower will still work in space featuring a flying tractor. OO Are we having fun yet?

:J

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Brettw
quote:Do you have a link to those fat AGs you mentioned? And are they as big as the size says -id="quote">
id="quote">

I purchased them from Greater Cleveland Tire, either their website or e-bay. They call them trencher tires. The height was "correct" 22-3/4"+ and the width was as good or better than the rest out there (almost a full 10") About $140 a pair plus shipping, which was reasonable. I'll post some pics.

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rokon2813
Originally posted by MysTiK

Wouldn't it be the same with fluid or weights - since they all attach at the same point? So gravity actually pulls on the hub? Or, you could say, mass is attached to hub?id="red">I remember being taught physics that weight is dependent on gravity, whereas mass is an absolute. Weight does not exist in space. wow. far out man. :D But mass exists regardless. But people trendoids talk today that everything is "absolutely" - gimme a break. 8) Absolutely trendoid. And then there's the metaphysical absolute - but we aren't in Kansas anymore, Toto. 8D But note, a snowblower will still work in space featuring a flying tractor. OO Are we having fun yet?:J

When working with front attachments, ie loader, johnny bucket, snow blower, or anything else in front of the front axle, fluid in the rear tires does effect balance, as the front axle then becomes the fulcrum point

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chris87

i have a asphalt drive way that so chains are not a option for me. so i filled my tires and going to add a rear counter weight. my dive way is on a hill so will need extra traction going up hill. but if i had a gravel or concrete i would use chains. for my rear weight i saw on here some one made a concrete counter weight. sorry i cant remember who it was to give credit. but i liked that because it hangs off the back so you don't need as much weight to get the same affect because it acts like a lever hanging off the back. I'm going to use a 5 gallon bucket with sand so i can add of take weight away as needed.

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huffy
quote:Originally posted by chris87

for my rear weight i saw on here some one made a concrete counter weight. sorry i cant remember who it was to give credit.


id="quote">
id="quote">I think this is the thread you're referring to? I thought others viewing this thread might find it interesting: http://www.simpletractors.com/do_it/diy_counterweight.htm

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Kent

I've filled all my tractor tires with either winter-mix WW fluid or marine/RV antifreeze. Caught the antifreeze on end of season sale at Walmart once and stocked up, but otherwise use WW fluid.

Just some anecdotal notes about that:

1. I've never seen any indications of rust from using either WW fluid or marine/RV antifreeze.

2. Using "loaded tires" puts the center of gravity as low as it can possibly go -- on the ground. This is especially useful when operating on slopes.

3. Removing/replacing loaded tires is easier/faster than dealing with wheel weights, IMO... and I've used them also. Yes, they're heavy, but getting heavy wheel weights (one piece Bolens-FMC or stacked Simplicity weights) on and tight can be time consuming. I typically have to drive the tractor around, then retorque them. The loaded tire is a single step process...

4. Using WW fluid is by far the cheapest way to add weight, unless you have huge chunks of steel or other metal just lying around that you can cobble something up with. It is not specific to either the brand of machine, nor the size of the wheel/tire combo. It is "totally generic" and readily available...

5. In very hard pulling, such as a pulling tractor, loaded tires do NOT provide quite the traction that weights provide, because it reduces the sidewall flex and consequently the "bite" of the tire. For normal use in plowing, snowplowing, etc., I doubt you'd ever know the difference...

6. IMO, adding any type of additional weight, anywhere on the tractor adds additional stress, whether on bearings, axle tubes, keyways, etc. You're just picking your poison...

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary...

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joelk

I think it is a coincidence, but when I started using wheel weights (50 lbs) on my foot dragger, my axle tube cracked within a year. Most likely it was just never taken care of but I snow blow with just chains now.

I can't get past the image of snowblowing in space with a flying tractor "I can blow snow about 20 light years with my tractor..."

Thanks Mystik.

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MikeES

If you feel that wheel weights or fluid in the tires broke and axle it was by inertia and not the "added weight". With the rotational mass moving and then coming to a quick stop or with a hydro a quick reverse, would put a huge strain on the axle.

As far as tractor pulling, you do not want any wheel weights or fluid. You want your rotational mass as low a possible, thats why you see aluminum wheels on many pullers.

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