Fry oil for fuel??,,

[dlcentral]

Will play with the stuff in summer mos.with-OUT the lye,Will stick with diesel//kero in cold mos.,

[Woodydel]

DLC the link below shows the simpler process and still was bothering me. The guy is good with chemistry but he's around it all the time and is used to this stuff. If someone made a standardized hardware setup, for example telling you with a detailed plan where to buy and how to assemble to avoid dangerous errors then its a good idea. I don't think that will happen because in the entire USA we don't use enough cooking oil to supply very many people with diesel. He stresses that the end product is environmentally safe but just one chemical sodium methoxide is far worse than any diesel pollution. Hope to hear how this works out. Who the hell does stuff like this in their living room? Woody[A href='http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html']http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html[/a]

[Woodydel]

If you follow the instructions to the website mentioned. Just think about one aspect of the sodium methoxide: Stability: Highly flammable. Reacts violently with water. Keep container dry. Incompatible with water, acids, chlorinated solvents. Toxicology: Causes burns. Inhalation may be fatal. May cause severe eye damage. Harmful if inhaled or swallowed, and in contact with the skin. Very destructive of mucous membranes. If you have a pocket protector in your shirt pocket you might be the type to want to do this. You can kill yourself following these directions! No joke. I'll keep going to Hess. After you've made this stuff for a while you won't be able to smell the fries or donuts. ----- I just got back to my computer and went back to check on Aleks Kac's Foolproof method of preparing the used oil. I think the keyword here is FOOL I've done many chemistry experiments when I was younger. This guy is used to working around chemicals we should not even be touching. My opinion is still the same. This is a process for industry or factory conditions. I think the average guy reading this may actually try this. Woody P.S. If people want to do this it's fine with me. I don't work as a chemist but I've learned enough to recognize this process as overly dangerous. I don't like people getting hurt.

[Woodydel]

I went further into this idea. If you go to the link below, try the section about quality testing. You can make a lot of mistakes and ruin your motor or the fuel system at best by doing it yourself. Bio fuel is probably great. Northern Hydraulics sells a corn burning stove that needs no flue pipe. It burns corn pollution free inside your home. [A href='http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html']http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html[/a]

[MPH]

With the disgraceful price farmers get for corn, that stove should sell well in farm country..MPH

[dlcentral]

Les,, what do you have to do other than filter it out really good,to use USED fry oil for fuel in diesels?What type makes the best fuel?Do you really have to ''crack'' it as they say with NAOH, or can it be run with some K-1[20-30%]so it won't coke up pump or injectors?Also what about in below freezing temps,,will it still work or will it turn to LARD!?I kinda like the idea of smelling french fries or donuts when mowing//snowthrowing!,free fuel.Less emissions,Now thats an interesting thought!,

[MikeES]

Over here in Wisconsin they do sell a few "corn" stoves but they all need a flue. They don't burn that clean unless you ferment that corn and burn the "alcohol". Mike S.

[Woodydel]

That is what I would have thought Mike, but it doesn't have one ( the one from Northern Hydraulics). It might be easier to squeeze corn for the oil and use that as biodiesel DLC. Maybe a big wine press hooked up to the PTO? Woody

[srwven]

I am not Les, and definitely no fuel expert like him. But this subject does intrigue me, and I have researched it some. Here is a good link http://www.webconx.com/making_biodiesel.htm Note they state that this is not good for temp. below 40 because it gels unless heated or other methods used, but also gives a link to another site of a person who has refined the method for colder temperatures. Worth some time browsing if you are seriously interested. While Les is here, what fuel injector cleaner would you recommend?

[Roy]

Corn squeezings are best used to make Tennessee moonshine. Then I would not waste the moonshine in a vehicle unless it was fuel for the driver. Cheers, Roy

[Les]

You would have to heat it up, then add some kind of solvent to thin it down, diesel fuel would be the cheapest, emulsify, then filter. Soy Lactate would work if you can find some.

[BradW]

We really need to take Ethonol to a whole new level, farmers here in America need a new market for corn, my grandfather still farms, and I will be getting the land, 5 generations of my family have farmed it since the land was found, I am very proud I will get it, but I will NEED a 2nd job because of markets though, within the last 2 years, beans have gone down over 3 dollars a bushel around here which is a BIG difference in total earnings...consider this: A 300 bushel wagon 2 years ago $6.25 a bushel, this year $3.86 300 times $6.25 is: $1,875 dollars 300 times $3.86 is: $1,158 The difference:$717.00 That is a big differnce, thousands are lost each year, with ethonol a new market would help very well, hopefully things will improve....-BradW

[Ben_H]

ethonol dries out diaframs and other rubber parts in engines. It stiffens up the rubbber.

[Woodydel]

I believe that using our farm land to fuel our vehicles to be a mistake. The soil we have will not last indefinitely. Soil is not just dirt as some might think. The soil we use to grow crops on is depleted with each and every crop. Sure you don't see this because we see things in human life spans. In the long run the soil is left lifeless. So how do farmers continue to grow crops? They use fertilizers like crazy which are derived from petroleum for the most part. If you use money or the lack of income as the basis for using our croplands to fuel our mechanical beasts you are making a grave mistake. We have plenty of petroleum. You are kidding yourselves if you believe the line of bull about oil running out in the near future. The reason your crop prices have fallen is because of the big guys driving the unit price into the floor by selling in ever increasing volumes. The little guys fall by the wayside because they don't have the resources to keep up or not enough land to keep up. This problems is seen throughout the farming business whether it is crops or livestock in question. The reason for this is the same and I mean the same as why we depend on Arab oil. We are not willing to pay the extra money required to develop our own resources. When I say our own I am including Canada. I've mentioned their tar sands in numerous posts. Using our land and I do mean mine and yours for fueling our cars is not a good way to go. When I was a young person like Brad they told us we would not be able to feed ourselves by now. It was a line of bull just like the oil shortage in 73 and 74. Use the Canadian tar sands. Woody

[Woodydel]

This is just a question for the farmers out there. Is anyone using the wind for anything anymore? Like for pumping water for free, or making electric to sell back to the utility companies. Your bottom line can be increased with some inventiveness. I know farmers are having a hard time, maybe you have to change your approach to the problem. I'm on Long Island. Land is unbelievably expensive to keep. We have farmers all around me. Some changed their farms into vineyards, bigtime. We still have farmers growing potatoes making a living on what most of the US farmers would consider nothing in the way of land. I've got a mug hanging in my kitchen and this is what it says. "Raising children is like raising corn. It's hard work, it takes lots of time and there's no money in it". Brad, if you're going to grow fuel change your crop to something other than corn.[A href='http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html']http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html[/a]

[Woodydel]

Here is another thought. How come farmers can't make money? I bought cauliflower last week at $1.69 a head. I can grow it myself just like the farmers here in about 1.5 square feet of land lets be conservative and leaving space for the tractor to drive around and all, that at least 20,000 of those hight priced beauties per acre. If you get rid of row cropping and do square foot gardening you could make a good living on not too many acres. Here on Long Island they harvest them by putting the old pickup in granny gear, it drives itself along while they load them up. How much do you have to make is the question. If you have a lot of acres then ramping this up doesn't seem so difficult on a per acre basis. Lots of variance of crops. The big cash crops may be the answer and rotation would be easy and beneficial. I'm not a farmer but my wife says I should have been one for many years now. I must like busting my butt. Woody

[Kent]

Woody, I agree wholeheartedly with the point that we can't fuel our vehicles with our farm goods. The topsoil in the Midwest is rapidly disappearing already. Until large-scale mechanized farming, the family farms were smaller, livestock provided both the horsepower and a source of organic fertilizer, and most smart farmers used both a crop rotation system that planted a different crop every year and allowed the land to lie fallow about 1 year in 4, plus they "religiously" planted cover crops to till in to add organic materials to the soil and improve its tilth... Now, the family farms are huge (when I left Minnesota 3+ years ago, the average family farm was over 800 acres -- in order to make a living at it), crops are rotated on a 2 year basis (corn >> soybeans >> corn), they're fertilized by injecting a anhydrous ammonia and spreading petroleum-based chemical fertilizers, the cover crops aren't used systematically since they are an additional cost with no direct, short-term benefit, etc. Bottom line is that when combined with erosion (wind, rain, etc.) from the land lying unplanted all winter and the intense use that it's getting, the topsoil is disappearing at a very dangerous rate. Unfortunately, "organic-farming" raises the costs of the crops grown, and they cannot compete on a large scale with the "chemical dependent" farms.... I'm not sure what the solution is, but there is DEFINITELY a problem here.... Kent

[BradW]

We rotate crops here too, corn, soybeans, and winter wheat, I am not saying to depend on the land for a source of oil, but if we used ethonol as a part of the gas (more than we do now) it would make a larger market for corn, my grandfather, grandmother, and me work a pumpkin stand on the farm as another source of income, I know there are other ways, but if you priced it all out, believe me, your jaw would drop, not everyone can farm 30,000 acres, here a local grain elevator went under, they owed monsato 2,000,000 dollars and anyone who stored grain for more than 6 months they lost their grain as the elevator kept it to pay of debt, there is a man around here that lost $400,000 dollars because of this, he has to sell alot of his farmland just so he doesn't go under, there were alot of others that lost just about as much, this forced numerous small farmers under, farming is a occupation that takes alot of strength, power, good decisions, and a good pocket book, my grandfather uses all machinery made before 1981 because it is way too expensive to buy anything newer and he has 1,000 acres of land, -BradW

[dlcentral]

Okay,, maybe we don't use enough fry oil in this country for fuel, but I read somewhere that we only grow 28% of the crops that we are able to,partly because of such ridiculously low farm prices,And of course EXXON won't go for that unlees they have a piece of it!Why not get some fuel INDEPENDENCE in this country and grow the fuels we need?I.m not saying that is the total answer but if it helps even 10% that's 10% less we are DEPENDENT on these bast$$ds,,Who do you think made the royal Saudi family royalally rich?<<

[Woodydel]

For a young man, you are taking a big responsibility on your shoulders. At your age popping a zit should be your biggest worry. You're going to come up with a solution to your problem. There are people who care that you don't even know. Keep that in mind as you puzzle through your problems. I hope my comments encourage you to come up with the solutions you need and not discourage you. My intention has always been positive in nature and I think you Brad realize that. I think everyone here is on your side. On Long Island incentives are given to farmers to keep their land. Those that don't sometimes see the county government buying that land to prevent developement. Most farmers here have their kids taking off on non farming careers. Your loyalty to your family's way of life is admirable. That admiration by us won't help you though. What is needed is a different plan. Share your thoughts as you have, maybe some suggestions by us will help. Woody

[StinKy]

I've heard methane can and has been used as a motor fuel & producing it is not too involved. Being chemically illiterate myself, I'm hoping someone would care to expound on it's good and bad points Dick

[BradW]

I am very proud to be another generation of my family using the farm considering it skipped one generation (my mom's brother was supposed to take over, but a freak accident killed him in the early 80's) over here many people are selling out to subdivions, I am 1/4 mile from the boundry line of subdivind land, there were many nice farms torn down to build some economy "carboard" houses, do not get me wrong I am not against subdivisions or new houses, but when 100,000 dollar houses pop up and have very serious flaws, on once good land it is very disturbing, instead of a john deere there is a paving machine, instead of trees, there a million of the same kind of house, hopefully other companies will adapt toyota's concept of the "modern" electric car, a 1 cylinder motor runs a generator to charge batteries once they get low, 200 miles to the gallon of gasoline, and suprisingly they are not that ugly...-BradW

[Woodydel]

DLC, Take a look at this site. It may help you with your diesel fuel quest. Look around the site for where to buy biodiesel. Maybe they can give you info to make your own safely. Brad, go there too. Sell your soybeans to the companies listed within this site. DLC, your post may help Brad and his family. Woody[A href='http://www.Biodiesel.org/default2.htm']http://www.Biodiesel.org/default2.htm[/a]

[Woodydel]

How farmers produce methane gas. Go to the link.[A href='http://www.biogasworks.com/Index/US%20Farm-Based%20AD%20Practices.htm']http://www.biogasworks.com/Index/US%20Farm-Based%20AD%20Practices.htm[/a]

[Woodydel]

Easy Easy, It sounds like a good idea. I just think its a dangerous process. A while back I posted about using Canadian tar sands and no one seemed to care. We can eliminate ALL Arab oil use by using current technology to extract oil from what is totally useless tar sand (if we don't use it) This is fact not fiction. They have known how to do this, remove oil from tar sand, for a very long time. Our problem is everyone not wanting to pay the price. Well now we are ready, we just needed the wake up call. I still want to remind anyone thinking of making diesel out of used vegetable oil to be careful, for yourselves and your equipment. I'm not new to this oil dependency idea. I've included an image link which should work of my home. I designed it in 1978. What you see is my greenhouse with the glass off for now. The rest is below ground level because of the berming of the earth. I use 100 gallons of oil to heat my home a year. No wood burning or supplemental heat either. We should be running away from Arab oil. DLC I know where you are coming from. Most people shy away from doing everthing they can. I've done my share for a long time. Woody http://home.earthlink.net/~woodydel/_uimages/P1000654.JPG