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leeave96

Landlord DLX ???'s

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leeave96

I picked-up a Simplicity Landlord DLX this morning. I has an 18 hp B/S Vanguard and 50 inch deck. No power steering, diff lock or hydro lift. Sheet metal appears to be in excellent shape, as does the deck. Tractor has just over 400 hours on the clock.I'm told the engine makes a "horrible" noise when started. PO said broken rod, but wasn't sure. I've got to dig in to it.Question is - would this model Landlord have the K71 like the other models with power steering and hydro lift?What might one expect in finding another vertical shaft engine? Not sure rebuilding a Vanguard is worth the expense. Can I scavenge an engine off a Broadmoore or even another tractor with vertical shaft engine with electric PTO (it seems just about all tractors today are vertical shaft).How different were the Landlord DLX tractors vs the later Prestige tractors? Things I can see with a quick glance (my Dad has a Prestige) is welded vs cast iron front axle, 3/4ish vs 1 inch spindles, diff lock on the Prestige and power steering on the Prestige. The front deck mount looks similar, except the deck on this Landlord is manual lift. Hopefully the tranny's are the same - K71.Any words of wisdom on this tractor would be much appreciated.Attached are some pictures.BTW, I e-mailed the seller and asked what he would take for the tractor, and he said, "I will take no less than $100 for the tractor." So that's what I paid... :)

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RayS

Yes, it should have the K71. Send a Mfg. No. It is basically the same as a Prestige other than the Prestige has updated sheet metal. Burntime has a 23hp Command in his. So you have several options on motors.

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leeave96

Ray S - thanks!

The MFG for the tractor = 1693895

The MFG for the deck = 1692688

I've been downloading the manuals, etc. for this tractor and some reading.

One thing that jumps out at me (and maybe I'm just not seeing the big picture) is how LONG the shaft out of the engine is. It looks like a goodly distance from the engine down to the deck PTO. I could see that being a potential separator from using another non-Simplicity installed vertical shaft engine, i.e. like from a JD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet/MTD, etc.

Thanks again,

Bill

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RayS

I would take the numbers from the engine and do a google search. That sholud tell the length or a Simplicity dealer may know and then there is always BLT if you list the motor numbers. Crankshaft length should be easy to determine. You could even pull the electric PTO off annd measure from the seal to end of shaft. Even if you bought a new motor you would not be out much.

My Prestige is going on it 12th or 13th mowing season. It does not use any oil and works like it did the day I bought it. If the motor was to blow, I would replace it and more than likely with a new one.

15 to 20 years on a motor is good to me. That deck is worth $250 - $300 and does an excellent job. Same as the one on my Prestige. Prefer them over a 42" or 48" left hand discharge deck on a Sovereign.

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leeave96

Update: Pulled the plugs, put a battery in and gave the engine a crank. No unusual sounds - like broken rod(s) clanking around. I was surprised at how fast this Briggs Vanguard turned-over. I'm not sure any of my other tractors turn that fast on start-up. Looking down the plug, I don't see any movement, but I have a feeling the spark plug ain't over the piston. I think on the Kohler K series engines, the plug hole is off the piston and near the exhaust valve.

I'll tinker with it a bit more tomorrow, probably put in some fresh gas and new plugs and see if it fires and what kind of clanging/banging around there might be.

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simple_stan

Just my opinion, but I would save a briggs long before any other engine. It is my experience that they are very durable engines, parts are very accessible and much less expensive than other models. I have had two twin cylinder briggs come into my shop that broke rod, and the owner finished cutting there grass stating, "it made a noise and then seemed to loose some power." It sure didn't stop them from cutting!

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leeave96

Update: Replaced spark plugs (and checked they were the right size), changed oil and filter. Put in new gas and gave the tractor a try to start, but nothing. I'm thinking the reason this engine spins so fast might very well be due to broken rods in BOTH cylinders - no resistance as the crank ain't connected to anything. Still may not be the problem though. When I drained the oil, there were no bits of metal in it, shavings or anything. I may check to see if there is spark.

I think this tractor is in good enough condition to warrant an engine replacement. I'll tinker with it a bit more, but for now, it will go on the back burner for another day.

One thing I enjoy about these tractors (any of them that I have - regardless of color) is I view them like a good book. Each tractor in my fleet is a chapter, some of which are yet to be read. This Landlord is now one of those tractors... sm01

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leeave96

Update: I've pretty much had the Landlord parked waiting on an engine transplant.

1st engine I found was 14hp engine out of an MTD lawn tractor. The goal was to get an engine in this tractor as a band-aid until I could get a new engine. I've got a goodly amount of tractors and so there is a limit to how much $$$'s I can spend on the fleet at one time - so a patch was on order for this tractor, if for nothing else, to allow it to move around under it's own power.

Being a Briggs Vanguard in the tractor, I wanted to stay with Briggs to minimized the electrical side of things - so when a Briggs single cylinder IC engine fell into my lap for FREE that had the right size shaft diameter and length, I decided to give it at try.

Problem is - I've got a lot of fish to fry and never warmed up to installing the Briggs IC engine and didn't. Instead, I waited to see if a used Vanguard might pop-up. I found one for $200, but it got snatched-up before I could get to it. Another one came-up for $400, but I wasn't to confident it was a good engine. For $400, I want to hear it run and couldn't.

My Dad has a Husqvarna (sp?) lawn tractor with a tufftorq tranny in it, model K46 I believe. If you do a search, you will find that some folks have had tranny failure with them - leaving another wise good tractor. The tranny in my Dad's Husky failed after 22 hrs, but was replaced under warranty. The tranny in the Simplicity Broadmoor I believe is a K51 - but don't remember the exact model, except it is very similar to the K46, perhaps the same, but with a charge pump. Problem is - the Broadmoor's tranny sometimes fail too. I worked with a guy that had a Broadmoor and his tranny failed. Soooo, I kept my eye on the classifieds and sure enough - an add appeared for a Broadmoor with a bad tranny and the Vanguard engine in it was for sale.

The long and short of it is - I bought the engine. The engine was still in the tractor, so the owner fired it up for me and it sounded great. We pulled out the engine, throwed it in my car and I gave him $100.

Now I got $100 in the tractor and $100 in the engine. This thing is starting to get expensive... sm01

The engine is a direct bolt-up to my Landlord, the only difference is the muffler. This engine, though a twin cylinder Vanguard is 14 hp vs the 18 hp engine that came with the Landlord. The 18 hp Vanguard muffler is exhausts off of two cylinders directly into the muffler. The exhaust on the 14 hp Vanguard is exhausted off both cylinders, but manifolded from two pipes down to one and that one goes into the muffler. Both mufflers bolt on the same to the tractor. Not worried about the hp - this engine is a band-aid, hopefully a long term one!

I pulled out the old engine tonight. This was quite possibly the EASIEST engine removal I've ever done. Everything was straight forward and simple. As I said, I've got other color tractors, some more simple to work on than others, but this Landlord was a pleasure to work-on.

Tomorrow, I will clean out the engine bay and install the new engine and try to give it a try mowing.

One thing - this Landlord has a 50 inch deck, but I don't think the 14 hp engine will be necessarily underpowered. I've got a 48 inch deck on another color tractor and it is 12 hp and pulls the deck very well.

Hopefully I'll have some pictures tomorrow.

Thanks!

Bill

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Brettw

Always, one quick simple way to determine if you have a broken rod, and if you can spin the engine, is to remove the plug and put your thumb over the spark plug hole and hit the starter. You will know right away if there is any compression at all.

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leeave96
quote:Originally posted by Brettw

Always, one quick simple way to determine if you have a broken rod, and if you can spin the engine, is to remove the plug and put your thumb over the spark plug hole and hit the starter. You will know right away if there is any compression at all.


id="quote">
id="quote">Yes - we did that. It's amazing how easily the starter spins the engine when a cylinder isn't connected. I'll take the old engine apart to see if it is a simple fix or things are badly scared-up and I've got a parts engine.

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Burntime

I am opposite for motors. The old single briggs over kohler, when its twin, the commands have way more power (torque) in the same hp rating over the briggs twin. I have a 2001 landlord dlx with the 23hp command. It is a beast with a 54"deck. I have the blower and 3 bag leaf turbo vac. It cuts way better than any sovereign, and I am a sovereign guy. I am looking to add a ps sovereign to the line up again for attachments, the landlord has lawn duty! Heck, I never thought I would say this, but the snowblower is nicer on the landlord with the short throw hydro lift and foot controls as well. Still, there is no replacement for the sovereign with the bucket, tiller, dozer, etc. Quick on, quick off. As to the difference to the prestige and landlord, mine has ps and hydro lift. All prestiges have hydro lift as well. If you do, its just the difference of the tin...

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leeave96

Here is a pic of the engine I'm going to put in the tractor. Aside from the exhaust being piped to one port on the muffler (you can see the muffler in the pic), outwardly you can't tell any physical difference in that and the 18 hp engine.

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Burntime

I noticed a lot of motors are multiple hp depending on carb etc. Check, you may be able to swap the carb or linkage and get another hp or two. Usually I see 12-14 or 15hp. The old brigs were 14-16 to give you an idea... Looks clean. It may lug a little with a 50" deck in taller grass but should do a great job!

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Burntime

Did you get the snowthrower? I see it has the manual lift lever on it...I have seen a few kohler 23hps on cl. I can tell you it is a beast with one of those! Mine has an oil cooler and remote filter. A drink of synthetic oil and it does great year round!

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leeave96
quote:Originally posted by Burntime

Did you get the snowthrower? I see it has the manual lift lever on it...I have seen a few kohler 23hps on cl. I can tell you it is a beast with one of those! Mine has an oil cooler and remote filter. A drink of synthetic oil and it does great year round!


id="quote">
id="quote">No snowthrower. This tractor will be a mower workhorse though and may tote a little firewood.

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Gordan

For what it's worth, the brand new Vanguard in my Sovereign spins very freely, but so does the old 16hp Briggs single on my 7116. This is compared to an Intek which cranks very ponderously.

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leeave96
quote:Originally posted by Gordan

For what it's worth, the brand new Vanguard in my Sovereign spins very freely, but so does the old 16hp Briggs single on my 7116. This is compared to an Intek which cranks very ponderously.


id="quote">
id="quote">I hear what you are saying. There's (IMHO) no resistance on the engine - BUT, I don't know if the Vanguard has a decompression system on engine start-up like some Kohler engine have.I've changed spark plugs, verified I have (what appears to me) a strong spark on each cylinder, I sprayed starting fluid into the carb to rule a fuel delivery problem and held my thumb over the cylinder hole to check compression - which I can't detect any, but maybe there is an anti-compression deal there. What I don't hear is any clanging or banging going on inside the engine - which gives me hope that there is a crazy simple to fix problem with this 18 hp Vanguard engine. One thing I won't be doing is taking it to the trash pile, it will go on the bench this Winter and I'll at least pull the heads to see what's going on. Even if the rods are broken, there might be some chance the engine is repairable - we'll see.I am going to go out in a bit, try to install the new 14 hp engine try to mow with this tractor.Now if I could just carve out some time to finish-off my Agco Allis 918H and get it to crank... :IThanks!Bill

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leeave96

Update: Got the engine installed. The hardest part of the re-install was getting the PTO back on. Don't ask why, but it was a pain in the buttox. I also had to wack off a bit of the inlet tube for the 14 hp's engine muffler to get it to properly bolt to the frame, but there was plenty of length to cut without compromising the muffler.I can't say this tractor was physically abused, but I think the maintenance was sorely lacking. The engine bay and surrounding sheet metal and frame structure was pack with grass clippings, much of which was oil soaked. Here is a pic of the pile of grass I pulled out from the engine bay and a pic of the engine bay wiped down a bit:

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As you can see, there was still a lot of debris to clear out.Here is are some pics of the engine installed:

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Hers is a pic of the finished product:

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While the tractor outwardly doesn't appear abused, the deck front attachment bracket was broken. Here is a pic:

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My Brother is a great welder and is going to fix this later today.Other areas of concern:The engine starts and runs smooth. In fact, if I had to describe how this tractor runs, responds to fwd/rev movement, ease of steering and ride - one word - SMOOTH! However, after some run time, the engine developed a bit of a surge. Not sure what to make of it yet.In the mean time, I'm reading the manuals and will go out and grease everything per the manual. I've already changed the oil and filter. Might change the spark plugs too. Mower blades are sharpened, but need replaced at some point.Thanks!Bill

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leeave96

OK - my Brother welded up the deck handle and we sprayed some flat black on it to tough it up.

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Mowed my back yard with the tractor. My grass was tall and thick. The 14 hp engine and 50 inch deck didn't bog down, but definitely labored when I would take a full swipe. I didn't see it a problem or necessarily this mow was hard on the engine, more of the getting into the governor. If the grass was wet and I was going zero turn mower speed, there might have been a problem. Again, this 14 hp engine is a band-aid - but hopefully one that will last a long time.Here is a pic of the finished mow:

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I've got the deck cranked up to it's highest setting - I like to mow grass not dirt, unlike some of my neighbors. With the tall thick grass, I tried to stripe the grass, but you could barley see any striping, if any at all. Anyone have any tips on how to make the stripes more visible?The deck really threw out grass from the front left side of the deck. Here is a pic:

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I can see how the front end of the tractor was loaded with grass from the PO. I blew off the deck and tractor when I finished mowing. The 50 inch deck draws a fair amount of vacuum and does a good job blowing the grass out - no wind rowing today.Steering defiantly requires more effort with the deck installed than without. Turning radius is very tight.This tractor has traction control vs diff lock and there were a few places in my yard where the rear wheel would spin. I would stop and reapply the fwd pedal and generally the mower would move forward. I guess this the traction control doing it's thing - or is this really a gimmick?Last thing is the engine. It quickly starts, but has a surge. When I pull the choke out about half way, it smooths out. I checked the rpms and am at around 3,000 max. I need to figure out how to rid the tractor of the surge and increase the rpms to 3,400 per the manual.It's been a very busy weekend. I'll continue to learn this tractor over the remainder of the Summer.Thanks for everyone's help!Bill

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