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416S slips in higher gears


makeitfit

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Maybe someone can point me to someone who sells OEM Simplicity belts?

I drove over an hour today to the nearest dealer and all they had was True Blue belts, the same belts I can buy at any small engine shop here.

I've got two of them and they both slip.

Another dealer told me they don't keep parts for such an old machine, another said the 2029350 was no longer a good number, but they had a belt assortment and were sure they could match me something up.

I did pick up another parts machine today, another 410S missing its motor, the owner said it ran fine till the motor threw a rod.

The Kohler K301 is in a box.

The belt on this one looks original, its marked 2029350/4L530.

I took that belt, tensioner, linkage rod, spring, and BGB pulley and put it on my 416S and it still slips.

At this point I don't get it. The way I understand these transmissions is that their always in forward, its just a matter of engaging the belt to go forward.

I can't even get a straight belt to hold under load? A belt that's been rimmed on like a tire will still slip. It almost never spins a tire, it'll slip the belt long before it spins a tire even with a fixed belt on the pulleys, and that's in any gear with enough load. If I pull this thing up to a huge tree, it'll stop and just sit there, with the BGB pulley just spinning and the belt not moving even with the tires in soft dirt or gravel.

I would think that with almost any belt that tight I'd get better pulley traction than I get here. The pulley is dry and smooth, I now have a half dozen pulleys sitting on the bench and all slip.

I took an original belt and a new belt to several bearing suppliers here and they looked at me like I was crazy, they had no idea why the old belts and new belts, both with the same part numbers, were so different. The one original belt off my first 410S actually measures 9/16" wide x 52 7/8" long, that one has AC2029350 marked on it and the name AGCO in color print in another spot. That belt broke but was the only one that didn't slip. It only lasted a few rows.

I got the garden plowed but did it in first gear again. It took 6 hours.

I'm just about at the point of giving up on this thing, I may just yank the new motor out of this thing and put it in another non-shuttle machine. I've got plenty of Simplicity machines which could run this motor.

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Joe,

I did not bother to see what dealership is closest to you. Instead I am providing you with a link to someone who is highly recommended. As I understand it, Brenda is the one who knows her stuff when it comes to parts.

Sandy Lake Implements is located in Pennsylvania and ships all over. I know Marty (MPH), who lives in Alaska, orders from them all the time.

Give them a try.

http://www.sandylakeimp.com/

Rick.........

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The dealer listed closest to me no longer does Simplicity, I called there a few months ago and they switched to some foreign brand only.

The guy there basically told me when Briggs and Stratton took over they got out of dealing Simplicity. The next closest is in PA or DE.

The dealer in the link above is about 450 miles from me. I'm in southern NJ, about 20 minutes from AC.

I'll give them a call tomorrow. I just hate to mail order parts like this though, if its wrong its a bigger hassle.

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If Brenda gets it wrong she either miss understood you or got wrong info. Been order from them since at 2000. Gotten a few wrong deck belt for the 3314 but the deck on it is from an older unknown for sure Simplicity. I normally get my stuff in 4-5 days and you'd have to add at least one zero to your miles.

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I'll order a new drivebelt and a new BGB pulley in the morning.

But I still have one more question: How much tension should be on the drive belt with the clutch released?

This just seems like the belt is too loose to me?

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I sort of solved the problem today, still ordered a new belt, but I picked up a nice looking 3410 Simplicity at an auction for $30 Friday night. It runs but smoked pretty bad, so my quick fix was to take the motor, battery, and wheels off the 416S and popped them onto the 3410. The 3410 came with a rear lift set up, deck, and rear tiller. The tiller is missing the drive pulley set up, they had a belt run straight from the BGB to the tiller, the belt was nearly cut through against the seat pan.

For now it'll live with the 16hp motor from the 416S. I sort of like the 416S better but for now it solves the problem at hand. The 3410 is in a lot nicer condition as well.

Maybe I'll tear the 416S apart and build one perfect 3 speed 410/416 with another motor. It'll give me an excuse to repaint the thing and hammer out all the dents and fix the rusted out battery tray area.

Maybe I'll even rig up some sort of power lift.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, I got a factory belt, put the 416S back together with a new 16hp motor, and it still slips in forward gears under load.

It never slips in reverse, only in forward. It won't even climb the ramp onto the trailer, yet it will back up the ramp with no problem?

Its still got the shuttle trans for now, but its looking like its in for a 3 speed conversion. The belt slips at the BGB pulley, just like before. The factory belt from Simplicity is no different than those from the local parts stores.

Two things I don't get, one is why it don't slip in reverse, and the other is why I can't seem to get it to stop slipping even if I manually tension the clutch belt with a prybar or extra spring? The belt sits nearly bottomed in the BGB pulley at all times, I marked the inside of the pulley with magic marker and it wears that off almost instantly. The pulley has been changed twice, no change.

The best I've gotten out of this is with the shortest possible belt rimmed onto the pulleys, with no clutch, but even that slips in high gear. The trans isn't tight, there's so little traction on the bgb pulley that with the tractor on stands, running in gear, I can stop the belt from turning by applying pressure to the rear pulley with a piece of wood by hand. When the belt slips, it smokes, the belt gets glazed almost instantly. With the too short belt, it'll spin a tire in low gear on dirt, but still won't climb the ramp onto the trailer or into the shed.

I'm pretty convinced its a belt tension issue along with belt width.

Even with an extra heavy duty spring added to the clutch linkage up top, it don't translate to much force on the belt tensioner. The belt has a mechanical advantage over the linkage for some reason.

I cannot move the linkage by hand from where the shaft connects to the rod, yet if I push back on the tensioner, I can move that off the belt with one finger. On my 3 speed and hydro models, the belt from the BGB is 10 times tighter. With the clutch out, on the 416S, I can lift the belt off the pulleys by hand with no effort, I can push and run my finger around the pulley under the belt with ease even while prying added tension against the linkage up top.

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